Rebreather idiot with question?

[UWSojourner]

Caveats:
1. I have done 0 rebreather dives.
2. I have done 0 technical dives.

But, something about rebreathers is attractive. I was in GC when Zero Gravity was taking place and talked to someone who did a 2 1/2 hr dive at 250'. That sounded good compared to my 40 minute dive at 50' (mostly the time). I currently dive primarily cold water with drysuit, but occasional warm water trips are great.

What are my steps into rebreathers? Why would I consider them? (Please, no "cause fish don't see your bubbles" responses) Should I first do technical work? How many dives should I have before I consider rebreathers?

Questions in no particular order. I have a tough skin so don't pull punches (I also have 4 kids so if rebreathers are a bad idea let me know) .

 

[BigJetDriver]

Caveats:
1. I have done 0 rebreather dives.
2. I have done 0 technical dives.

But, something about rebreathers is attractive. I was in GC when Zero Gravity was taking place and talked to someone who did a 2 1/2 hr dive at 250'. That sounded good compared to my 40 minute dive at 50' (mostly the time). I currently dive primarily cold water with drysuit, but occasional warm water trips are great.

What are my steps into rebreathers? Why would I consider them? (Please, no "cause fish don't see your bubbles" responses) Should I first do technical work? How many dives should I have before I consider rebreathers?

Questions in no particular order. I have a tough skin so don't pull punches (I also have 4 kids so if rebreathers are a bad idea let me know) .

If you have four kids, you would first, above all else, have to consider the question of whether or not you can afford it (or will your SO let you afford it)? The units are fairly expensive.

Why would you want to? Well, you can darn well stay down longer in almost any circumstance than any OC person, and bottom time is what this is all about. Also, the gas you breathe is warm and moist, thus not leaving you with the usual OC symptom of: "The Chinese Army marched through my mouth barefoot!" at the end of a long dive.

For the photographer, you CAN sneak up on fish more easily. And it really is quieter underwater with an RB.

The Japanese, for some time, trained divers from ab initio on rebreathers, but truthfully, that is probably not optimal. You really should have your Nitrox Diver card, and then you can combine Advanced Nitrox, and Basic Rebreather.

The new rebreathers are a little more complex than a dual tank OC set-up, but not excessively so. They require a different style of diving, and different procedures, but the average diver is quite capable of learning how.

If you use proper procedures, and care, they are as safe, and in some ways, safer than OC diving.

Hope to see you as a happy No-bubbles Diver someday!

Cheers!

Rob Davie

 

[Kim]

The Japanese, for some time, trained divers from ab initio on rebreathers, but truthfully, that is probably not optimal.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I also haven't seen much evidence of rebreathers in Japan. Do you have any more information about which agencies did this or anything else?

 

[deepblueh2o]

Caveats:
1. I have done 0 rebreather dives.
2. I have done 0 technical dives.

But, something about rebreathers is attractive. I was in GC when Zero Gravity was taking place and talked to someone who did a 2 1/2 hr dive at 250'. That sounded good compared to my 40 minute dive at 50' (mostly the time). I currently dive primarily cold water with drysuit, but occasional warm water trips are great.

What are my steps into rebreathers? Why would I consider them? (Please, no "cause fish don't see your bubbles" responses) Should I first do technical work? How many dives should I have before I consider rebreathers?

Questions in no particular order. I have a tough skin so don't pull punches (I also have 4 kids so if rebreathers are a bad idea let me know) .

Suggestions, your in a dry suit so that's out of the way. You'll have to keep up on your open curcuit skills cause that is what we usually bailout to, unless we bail to a second RB.
Your nitrox, deepdive, and trimix are all taught on open curcuit. So it does not hurt to get all of that out of the way so you can control the gases you use.
Traveling with a Rb can be difficult. But it you certify on say a Dregger Dolphin and an Inspiration. A lot of times you can just use there equipment when you get there..
tech skills go up in this order..Semi closed, manual closed curcuit, electronic closed curcuit.
You can buy an Inspiration, do the class, and call yourself a CCR diver in a month, maybe less. If you beleive that hype you'l die. Start slow and get confortable. Your unit will have catistrophic failures once in a while so train for bailout.
Rewards, longer dives, quiter dives, deepth is no longer much of an issue, just a variable. And when your training matches skills, you can plan pretty much any kind of dive you can think of.
A lot of plases will have a cheap intro course to find out if it is for you.

 

[caveseeker7]

I was in GC when Zero Gravity was taking place and talked to someone who did a 2 1/2 hr dive at 250'. That sounded good compared to my 40 minute dive at 50'.

It's quite a way to go before you can do 2 1/2 hr dives to 150'.
At ZeroG many if not most participants are advanced divers, several with quite well known explorations in the past.

What sounded good, 2 1/2 hours, 250' or both?
You need to ask yourself about your objectives when diving.

What are my steps into rebreathers?

Ideally, plenty of research first. Both to make sure you want and need a rebreather, then which kind and model. Plenty of places to do that, the archives of this forum among them. Ought to keep you busy for a few nights, and you'll find enough good links to keep you reading for a couple of weeks.
Jeff Bozanic's "Mastering Rebreathers is also a good start.

Then I recommend doing an intro with the model(s) you like. If you do, make sure you're around to see the scrubber packed and unit prepped, and stick around for the post dive stuff, too. There's quite a bit more involved than OC diving.

The requirements for taking RB training differ from agency to agency, but for any model (save the RB80, that's GUE only) you'll need at least advanced and nitrox certs. Some require advanced nitrox, too.

Why would I consider them?

If you ask yourself that then you probably don't need to.
Actually what are you asking about? For?
Justification?

Should I first do technical work?

Aside from the before mentioned nitrox, not necessarily.
When you switch from OC to RB you'll start of from scratch anyway.
While technical classes will likely aid you understand several RB issues better or quicker, they'll also advance your OC skills past what you'll be doing for quite a while on an RB. And most will have to be taken again on RB anyway.
Opinions differ as widely on this issue as they do on RB models.

How many dives should I have before I consider rebreathers?

The requirements, as mentioned before, differ among agencies. Although it is possible to do your open water on a RB, I believe 50 is the minimum for most.
The majority of divers though have multiple times the dives by the time they switch.

I also have 4 kids so if rebreathers are a bad idea let me know.

Nice to see you're thinking of them. Sure there's any money left for a RB?
But seriously, I know of at least one guy selling his CCR last year for that very reason. His dives got longer and deeper, he and his family figured it's time to stop that while he's still ahead.

Family and RBs are not mutually exclusive, but there are additional risks when using a rebreather, not just benefits. Learn about them, analyze your needs and wants and make a decision what's best for you ... and your family.

 

[padiscubapro]

Your nitrox, deepdive, and trimix are all taught on open curcuit. So it does not hurt to get all of that out of the way so you can control the gases you use.

not necessarily....

I have taught full ccr trimix divers (starting from diver level) without doing ANY technical OC diving.. There is more CCR work to do, but in the end I find I have LESS issues to dealwith over experienced OC technical divers..

MY CCR trimix clases routinely hit 100m with 3+ hour run times...

 

[BigJetDriver]

You can buy an Inspiration, do the class, and call yourself a CCR diver in a month, maybe less. If you beleive (sic) that hype you'l (sic) die. Start slow and get confortable (sic). Your unit will have catistrophic (sic) failures once in a while so train for bailout.

I can't believe it, folks. The guy asks a simple question, and we're already into the: "If you do _________ (fill in the blank), you will die!" stuff.

As I pointed out, you will have to re-learn portions of your diving experience; in particular, bouyancy.

The beginning phase of rebreather diving is done using air as a diluent to air depths. The rest of the depths and gas mixes come later.

Yes, you train for various emergencies, as you do on OC. The answer is, bail out and figure it out. Modern rebreather systems are quite reliable, I might point out, so lay off the fear-mongering! :11:

Rob Davie

 

[BigJetDriver]

UWSojourner,

Padiscubapro and Caveseeker 7 both make excellent points in their posts. PSP is a technical and RB instructor of long standing, and CS7 is a long-time technical and rebreather diver who has been diving the Prism for quite a while. Please read their posts carefully, and think about what they say.

KIM,

Not certain what agency was involved in the RB effort I was describing, but the RB was the Fieno.

Cheers!

 

[padiscubapro]

Caveats:
1. I have done 0 rebreather dives.
2. I have done 0 technical dives.

But, something about rebreathers is attractive. I was in GC when Zero Gravity was taking place and talked to someone who did a 2 1/2 hr dive at 250'. That sounded good compared to my 40 minute dive at 50' (mostly the time). I currently dive primarily cold water with drysuit, but occasional warm water trips are great.

What are my steps into rebreathers? Why would I consider them? (Please, no "cause fish don't see your bubbles" responses) Should I first do technical work? How many dives should I have before I consider rebreathers?

Questions in no particular order. I have a tough skin so don't pull punches (I also have 4 kids so if rebreathers are a bad idea let me know) .

I was part of the group the last 2 years at zero g..

Most of the participants are very experienced full trimix CCR divers but there were a few that had lesser certifications..

On a typical dive we had people along the walls at depths ranging from about 130fsw down to about 300 fsw.. We multileveled the wall, some did maxdepth with short bottom times then came shallow to keep runtimes reasonable, other spend alot of time at depth and had just as long or longer run times..

This year the deco times seemed a bit shorter than in the past, most dives were around 2.5 hours..

I personally kept my decos this past year pretty short (relatively to what I normally do), around 1hr to 1.5hrs, that ,meant I usually had at least 30 minutes at ~200-250, 30 minutes at ~100 and 30 minutes at ~60 before starting the final deco..

The dive I really Enjoy is the 1 way trip from the Carrie Lee.. They put us on the wreck, the stern is about 165 (a few divers stayed above the wreck), the bow about 100ft deeper.. you do some bottom time then head for the wall and multlevel it up.. swimming back to sunsethouse about a 70minute swim, by the time you get there a majority of the deco is completed..

the previous trip I had one dive that I spent over an hour at 250 and paid for it with a runtime of 4+ hours..

The nice thing about rebreathers is that your breathe warm moist gas so longer runtmes are confortable in colder water..

 

[MikeR]

I think you would do fine on a breather. There is really no OC graduation to rebreather. Personally I feel that you are better off focusing on your existing skill sets than trying to go tech prior to CCR. Get your buoyancy down, develope your finning technics. Study and read as much as possible. Have and excellent understanding of gas physics and your of to a good start. Breathers are really no harder to dive than OC, just different. The hardest decision to make when venturing into rb's is unit selection. Talking RB's can be abit like talking politics or religion. Everyone thinks they have the best unit, problem is most of them are right. They probably made a well informed decision and bought the unit they were most comfortable with and the met their needs and future goals. You need to establish your needs and goals and select the best tool for the job. Take your time and educate yourself.