Fill whip - cosmetic or time to replace?

[iain/hsm]

Replace. I have used this company for my whips: High Pressure Hose - August Industries Inc.

Look carefully at your August Industries HP hose does it give a date of manufacture or even a manufacturer? No.

All the August advert says is its "Premium high pressure" and the other reasuring words "Excellent Strength"
with the ubiqutous "Equivalency Parker 527BA" statement whetever that means when its at home.
Crap from China may be a more honest position to take when making an informed choice.

None the less when the Hebei Orient Rubber and plastic company out of HeBei China make equivalent high pressure hose to "equivalancy" you can rest assured that most of this crap goes to the likes of Iran Russia and Brazil
Then to the USA for premium customers in scuba LOL

This is a problem we all face in this so called scuba industry getting quality components at reasonable pricing without the misleading junk we have to wade through to get informed.

I just wonder reading these adverts why all the HP and LP hose recalls in this so called scuba industry? Miflex Phantom etc etc makes you wonder what's going on..... Crap from China would be a good place to kick off from. But how do we make an informed choice is the question.

 

[iain/hsm]

I use these folks
https://scubacompressor.com/

Never a better statement made so far IMHO. I trust others can see the difference.

By contrast a clear concise and accurate description of a product using a known brand suppier. Parker.
Clear concise accurate whats not to like.

 

[Akimbo]

Yes, to both questions... If that hose pops it will beat the ever living shxxx out of you.

True. I have seen new and accidently damaged hoses turn into whips from hell at least 20 times. One guy had to be evacuated by chopper. These were on sat systems so HP hoses were like spaghetti.

It was not uncommon to wrap frequently used hoses with 1/4"/6mm double-braid line and half-hitches about 1"/25mm apart and clips on both ends. The idea is that frequently used hoses have the greatest chance of somebody being nearby when, not if, they fail.

 

[iain/hsm]

True. I have seen new and accidently damaged hoses turn into whips from hell at least 20 times. One guy had to be evacuated by chopper. These were on sat systems so HP hoses were like spaghetti.

It was not uncommon to wrap frequently used hoses with 1/4"/6mm double-braid line and half-hitches about 1"/25mm apart and clips on both ends. The idea is that frequently used hoses have the greatest chance of somebody being nearby when, not if, they fail.

Not disputing the effect but the cause is worth consideration.

To put numbers on those 20 failures you experienced first did they happen some years ago? In addition the "culprits" in the form of which diving contractor from the worse culprit to the slightly better would I suggest be as follows.

Oceaneering then Taylor Diving then Sub Sea International.

Cause and effect for a reason. And you could also add Infabco in as the wild card.

 

[Akimbo]

To put numbers on those 20 failures you experienced first did they happen some years ago? In addition the "culprits" in the form of which diving contractor from the worse culprit to the slightly better would I suggest be as follows.

Around 2/3rds were physical damage that no hose would survive. Two-three were on Seaway's DSVs, which used a lot fewer hoses than portable systems like Taylor, Comex, and SubSea's. One was a tube truck delivering Helium on the pier — their hose failed, not ours. One was a few years ago on a non-sat expedition dive. Hoses are a little better now but the not that much. The absolute worst (in so many ways) were the little bounce dive bell systems hung on the stern or workboats that never should have left the GOM.

Fortunately, I turned down work with Infabco when it was just getting started. I was never onboard with any of their crews.

Still, the bottom line is any hose can fail and it can be ugly when it does. Dive shops are at much lower risk because the hoses are relatively few, sizes are small, lengths are short, flow rates are low, and they don't have to worry about a container tearing loose and sliding across the deck. Low risk is not no risk.

 

[rjack321]

lol. their website must have a bug. they want $76 to ship 5 feet of hose and two connectors.

Their website shipping struggles lately for some reason. I just call them up and its like $12 for a USPS flat rate box of my stuff

 

[guruboy]

That said, to @guruboy that is likely a nylon braid btw. We don't use nomex in this type of application and the para-aramids *kevlar/twaron* are not white. They are naturally bright yellow and while they can be dyed other colors, they can't be turned white. Nylon is the grandfather of the aramid group and is a poly-amide so they are related, but it is not an aramid fiber.

This is a DGX whip and that is what they listed on their website.

The hose complies with SAE 100R8 standards having a { 5000 psi | 350 bar } working pressure and is aramid braid reinforced thermoplastic with a nylon core and black perforated polyurethane cover.

 

[tbone1004]

This is a DGX whip and that is what they listed on their website.

I have a degree in textile engineering, specializing in ballistic protection. It's not an aramid braid... Their supplier may be telling them it is, but it is not.

 

[iain/hsm]

Around 2/3rds were physical damage that no hose would survive. Two-three were on Seaway's DSVs, which used a lot fewer hoses than portable systems like Taylor, Comex, and SubSea's. One was a tube truck delivering Helium on the pier — their hose failed, not ours. One was a few years ago on a non-sat expedition dive. Hoses are a little better now but the not that much. The absolute worst (in so many ways) were the little bounce dive bell systems hung on the stern or workboats that never should have left the GOM.

Fortunately, I turned down work with Infabco when it was just getting started. I was never onboard with any of their crews.

Still, the bottom line is any hose can fail and it can be ugly when it does. Dive shops are at much lower risk because the hoses are relatively few, sizes are small, lengths are short, flow rates are low, and they don't have to worry about a container tearing lose and sliding across the deck. Low risk is not no risk.

I worked for Seaway on the Seaway Swan and cut my teeth with Sub Sea but that was a long time ago, things have improved, better quality better inventory control and tagging hose life and work load. Testing and certification. Also no more making hose ends up yourself on the deck using reusable fittings Lenz etc but never using crap imports from China of unknown origin.

The scuba industry is fond of keeping the customer in the dark, so no technical information is ever given they have no idea what they are selling and the buyer even less. The question to the dive shop is pretty straighforward.

"Am I buying a $1 a foot hose out of China your selling for six or a $5 a foot hose made by a recognised supplier selling for six, ether way unless you ask the question the customer has no way to know (apart from a purposed data sheet and dive forums). Then again another difference in our day if you didnt know you would find out most dive shops if not all today when asked will either lie or at best give you a wild ass guess.