An actual legitimate use for spare air???

[johndiver999]

I agree that my words are too strong but what you describe at the end of your post is not what I understood from his scenario.

What I understood is that you may run out of air at a deeper depth, then you ascend and elect to do a safety stop, because you have a spare air.

To me it’s iffy to say that this the recommended way to deal with an OOA situation at 100ft:

• run out of air at 100ft
• come back up to 15ft
• finish your spare air doing an optional safety stop

I don’t see a valid reason to say that this should be the recommended way to deal with an OOA situation if you have a spare air, and I don’t think the pros outweighs the cons in this situation.Also I have met instabuddies who are not clear on the fact that safety stops are optional, so that’s the point I want to stress here.

@AfterDark makes a good point that you’ll get more air as you get up.

I am not recommending anything, not even using a spare air. Your disdain for an optional safety stop is pretty clear.

Would you feel the same if the diver had no spare air, got separated from a buddy and started an ascent from 100 feet with maybe 200 psi in their tank. What if they made a reasonable ascent and ended up at 15 feet with say 100 psi on the gauge.

What if the diver was calm and relaxed at this point? Would you still be so against the diver performing a safety stop for a few minutes before the air ran completely out? Do you see no conceivable benefit of performing the stop?

I certainly can see a potential benefit of doing the stop - after a 100 ft dive, however, I would not deny that it also has some potential problems if the diver's watermanship skills are weak (or another diver shows up and wants some air). For me, the best decision would depend on a whole range of factors that would need to be (quickly) considered.

 

[BlueTrin]

I am not recommending anything, not even using a spare air. Your disdain for an optional safety stop is pretty clear.

Would you feel the same if the diver had no spare air, got separated from a buddy and started an ascent from 100 feet with maybe 200 psi in their tank. What if they made a reasonable ascent and ended up at 15 feet with say 100 psi on the gauge.

What if the diver was calm and relaxed at this point? Would you still be so against the diver performing a safety stop for a few minutes before the air ran completely out? Do you see no conceivable benefit of performing the stop?

I certainly can see a potential benefit of doing the stop - after a 100 ft dive, however, I would not deny that it also has some potential problems if the diver's watermanship skills are weak (or another diver shows up and wants some air). For me, the best decision would depend on a whole range of factors that would need to be (quickly) considered.

Is it the right analogy ?

I think the fair comparison would be more like, you have an issue but elect to use your last 100psi to do an optional stop and surface with no air at all or a few breaths left ?

Maybe I misunderstood the scenario, does he propose to use it if you have a bit of air left in your cylinder but so you can use it to do a safety stop without finishing your reserve ? That would make more sense then.

I don’t dislike safety stops: I always do one. I just would maybe skip one if I ran OOA.

If the diver is relaxed and can do a stop and be sure to have some air left, yes it is a different situation, I agree.

EDIT: actually I misread the original post. In his scenario two buddies are on a safety stop but only one of them ran out of air and they are still together.

In this case, IMHO it would probably make more sense to stay on the buddy octo, but that’s totally different from what I understood, so apologies !

 

[NothingClever]

@spitfiremac - Your desire to be safe is to be praised but I think your proposed method to achieve some safety is off target.

Integrating a Spare Air into one’s kit with the intention of having contingency gas for a safety stop exacerbates an existing problem, that of poor training (or retention), planning, awareness and judgment.

And although the same relative equipment is used in HUET, I respectfully submit that I don’t think its inclusion in this discussion is germane. The passengers are flying over water, a different environment, and subjected to a contingency beyond their control.

In contrast, the diver is in control of his intention to go underwater, his chosen environment. Accordingly, he should plan his dive, inspect his kit, monitor his consumption and stay aware of himself and the conditions so that he ends the dive safely. Ending the dive safely, the primary objective, implies that one planned and executed the dive safely before arriving at its conclusion.

If one is fixated on something or is just simply so inattentive that he runs OOA, then darts to a SS depth but then “chills out” on a Spare Air, this is, to me, a sign that one needs to re-focus on the basics.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Spare airs were originally designed for use to escape a helicopter ditching in the water (as mentioned in an earlier post). This was mainly for choppers flying to and from oil rigs. Its sole purpose was to enable people to get out of a sinking helicopter before it got too deep. A perfect solution for this problem. Then someone decided to expand the use by pushing to scuba divers. It worked for a while till smart people figured it was almost useless in an out of air situation.

I doubt I have seen one for sale or being used by someone in Australia for over 10 years.

 

[lexvil]

It’s funny how bent (pun probably intended) over the thought of these things but if it gives a new or old diver a sense of security why care? Ideally a spareair or a 40 cf pony should never be deployed (not deco gas just a pony, spare air if you like) yet both can save a life in the right situation and neither are a burden to anyone who isn’t carrying it. For the cost it’s not a good option but 3 is more the 0, 6 is more than 3, 13 more than either...

 

[Divin'Papaw]

It’s funny how bent (pun probably intended) over the thought of these things but if it gives a new or old diver a false sense of security why care? Ideally a spareair or a 40 cf pony should never be deployed (not deco gas just a pony, spare air if you like) yet both can save a life in the right situation and neither are a burden to anyone who isn’t carrying it. For the cost it’s not a good option but 3 is more the 0, 6 is more than 3, 13 more than either...

You forgot a word. I added it for you.

 

[kelemvor]

You forgot a word. I added it for you.

If I ever found myself out of gas underwater, I'd much prefer to have an extra 3cuft than 0cuft... The spare air is a nice little package. Too bad they don't offer it in larger sizes. My 13cuft pony is "just right" for me. I had to spend a lot to get a valveulator and the tank. Would have been nice to get it all in one. Having the mouthpiece right on the valveulator like spare air might be nice, too.

Is the neck on a spare air standard sized? I'm wondering if you could take the valveulator from a spare air and put it on a bigger tank.

 

[lexvil]

You forgot a word. I added it for you.

I didn’t forget it but you did expose yours.

 

[johndiver999]

If I ever found myself out of gas underwater, I'd much prefer to have an extra 3cuft than 0cuft... The spare air is a nice little package. Too bad they don't offer it in larger sizes. My 13cuft pony is "just right" for me. I had to spend a lot to get a valveulator and the tank. Would have been nice to get it all in one. Having the mouthpiece right on the valveulator like spare air might be nice, too.

Is the neck on a spare air standard sized? I'm wondering if you could take the valveulator from a spare air and put it on a bigger tank.

They are 6 cu-ft now,

Spare Air – the original mini scuba tank for divers and more, available in 3.0 and 6.0 cu. ft. tank sizes

 

[HKGuns]

I carry a rubber hose in my truck. If I drive into a canal and find myself trapped in my truck under water, I insert the rubber hose and fart, should be enough air to get me to the surface.