Part time vs full time instructors

[lowwall]

The parallel I can think of is marital arts. Most (but not all) good karate Sensei have other full positions, and in while in many cases marital arts is as important or more important than their 'day job' it isn't a primary source of income.

Ok, I'm immature, but this is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

OP, the word you are looking for is "martial".

 

[divingjd]

To get back to the OP’s original question, I don’t know anyone who is a full-time instructor. There is always something else. You might the the dive shop owner, but then you have a lot of stuff besides teaching. You might work full time in a shop, but then you are selling gear, or being a tech, or selling travel, or some combination. In a resort/destination scenario, you are a guide/instructor. I haven’t taught in years, and I am SSI, so being an independent instructor was not an option, but it’s hard to imagine. Lots of people have day jobs and teach for fun, discounts, and a little money.

 

[TMHeimer]

To my knowledge, all of the 16 or so instructors at the (PADI) shop where I worked did so part time, mostly on weekends. Had "real" day jobs. One instructor freind said he may make $450-$600 per OW course taught, depending on number of students. He said he sometimes wished he'd remained a DM for $300/OW course and none of the paperwork and other stuff to deal with.
If you're part time, or as a retirement job, it's OK. I figure in the 4 years I assisted as a DM I came out about $1,000 ahead, including cost of the DM course, PADI membership, insurance, personal gas costs. If you enjoy yourself and at least make a paltry few bucks, I guess it's OK. Everyone knows my opinion on DMs working for free, or tips, or "perks". I feel the same about instructors working for poor pay. An instructor should make 4-5 times what an assistant make (I guess in many cases that would be 4-5 times zero).

 

[Diving Dubai]

Everyone knows my opinion on DMs working for free, or tips, or "perks".

Yes we do, and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion if the $$ are the most important thing to you.

My perspective an an instructor is somewhat different;

Just because someone can dive well, doesn't mean they can teach. Just because someone can teach, doesn't mean they can teach well.

To teach a maximum ratio of students well and to achieve good standards from the students requires an Instructor with exceptional abilities, not only to teach but to communicate principles in a way students can both grasp, but also perform to a good standard within the limited OW timeframe.

I've seen such instructors, and I'm in awe. I'm not at their level. My chosen limit is 50% of max, frankly I'd prefer only 1 or 2.

I gain more value from my OW students, being certified when they can complete all skills neutral and in trim, and deploy a dsmb from 4m (13') with a deviation of +/- 1m (3.25') than I do from the money of a tank of gas or two.

If a student is having difficulties with any skill - it's not their fault, it's mine because I haven't been able to communicate that skill in a way that they get. I would (and have) taken that failure personally, in which case it's up to me to learn more techniques and improve my teaching skills

It's my name on the cert card, I'd rather people ask who certified a student because they're impressed with their skills rather than them being a shower of sh*t underwater. I want the student to be enjoying underwater environment which is after all why we all dive anyway Rather than spending their dive having to focus of the mechanics of diving and missing all of the good stuff or damaging our fragile underwater world. Quality over Quantity.

YMMV

 

[HKGuns]

I guess I sort of knew this intuitively.

There is a lot of time spent with students and there is often travel involved with dive training. The classes aren't that expensive and I wouldn't imagine there is a lot left for the instructor after the shop and Agency takes their cut.

I'd be curious to know what the instructors equivalent hourly rate is for the average Open Water course. I'm willing to bet it ain't much.

Really makes me glad there are so many passionate people involved, willing to do this part time. Also the reason I tip pretty well after taking a course.

I'm certainly not silly enough to argue for higher fees!

 

[Diving Dubai]

Agency takes their cut.

Agency don't get a cut

Their money comes from the selling of the course materials to the shop plus any cert fee.

The shop takes the rest and then have different fee structures for Instructors.

 

[HKGuns]

Agency don't get a cut

Their money comes from the selling of the course materials to the shop plus any cert fee.

The shop takes the rest and then have different fee structures for Instructors.

Thanks for informing my ignorance.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes we do, and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion if the $$ are the most important thing to you.

My perspective an an instructor is somewhat different;

Just because someone can dive well, doesn't mean they can teach. Just because someone can teach, doesn't mean they can teach well.

To teach a maximum ratio of students well and to achieve good standards from the students requires an Instructor with exceptional abilities, not only to teach but to communicate principles in a way students can both grasp, but also perform to a good standard within the limited OW timeframe.

I've seen such instructors, and I'm in awe. I'm not at their level. My chosen limit is 50% of max, frankly I'd prefer only 1 or 2.

I gain more value from my OW students, being certified when they can complete all skills neutral and in trim, and deploy a dsmb from 4m (13') with a deviation of +/- 1m (3.25') than I do from the money of a tank of gas or two.


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I agree with everything you say. Don't know what any of has to do with my feelings of DMs working for no actual salary. And no, the $$ never was at all the most important thing to me. If it were, I CERTAINLY would not have gone through and expanse all the work to become an assistant.
The $$ is a matter of principal. To be called a "pro" and work for free degrades the "profession". But everyone knows my opinion here. I also (except this summer) always play professionally in a band in NY, as I have 2 music degrees and have played pro since 1973. With my campground fees and other expenses, travel/gas, I make about half (if that) of what it costs me to be there 7 weeks. OTOH, if it cost me nothing at all to be there but I didn't get paid, I wouldn't do it. That make sense?


YMMV

Click expand for my reply.

 

[TMHeimer]

The reality is, from Aow to Instructor with all fees, courses and dive costs (assuming your 30 dives) is conservatively around $20,000 If you don't have your own kit add another $3000. And then yes the annual fees. That's just an OW Instructor. Go further up the ladder and add more money. Get into Tech divign and become a Tech instructor, then add lots more money

The reality is, the ROI on the spend getting to Instructor is Zero. Nada. None.

Post qualification yes it's possible to theoretically break even on your annual spend just teaching, but in practice you'dd need to teach a ton of courses and probably lose all the enjoyment

Most part time instructors do it for the enjoyment primarily and forget about the money they've spent getting there.

My expenses (very approximate):
OW, AOW, EFR, Rescue Diver total-- maybe $1,200.
DM course, including materials-maybe $800?
Equipment purchased (including tanks, weights)--much bought used--less that $2,000.

The membership and agency fees are annually. Don't know what they are for an instructor. For me, the two totaled about $300 (I only too insurance to assist-- to teach the DM - led courses add maybe $100.

Leaving out the annual fees, my expenses totaled about $4,000 to become a working assistant.
How much is the Instructor Course? 2,3,$4,000 at most. I don't think here it is as much as $4,000.
How does that come close to $20,000?
And don't forget, I'm talking Canadian Dollars with our expenses, with CAD= 75 cents U.S.
I could have left something out, admittedly I didn't keep exact records and you are way more experienced in this area than I.

 

[MichaelMc]

My expenses (very approximate):
OW, AOW, EFR, Rescue Diver total-- maybe $1,200.

I do not think you can count your cost to become a decent basic diver (OW, AOW, Rescue, etc) in your costs to become a dive pro.