Why I will definitely take the Rescue course

[Divingblueberry]

With what you know you did the right thing. Only thing you could have done differently would have been to come up from behind and grab the inflator with your left hand. If the diver was truly panicking being in front allows him to grab on to you and then you lose control of the situation. Hard to say on offering the reg. I would have switched over to the necklace so the main reg could be available if needed without hesitation.

Take the Rescue course as you plan to. It is filled with useful tips. Many her will probably say you don't need it and are just Card collecting but it is really good information for on land issues and in water issues.

If you have options where you live then research the Instructors. Can make a big difference.

The rescue course was very helpful, but I found basic wrestling skills worked best at managing a flailing, panicked diver:

First get left-on-left wrist control. . . twist his wrist inward (pronate) so you can get behind him, go two-on-one on his left wrist if needed . . . once you're behind him, throw a half with your right arm, but don't run it--just leave it there to control him in an upright position . . . switch your left hand from his left wrist and reach under his left arm to gain control of his inflator hose and pre-position your hand to give signals right in front of his face . . . depending on your relative body sizes, either put in both legs like you're going to leg ride him or wrap his waist with both legs, hooking one ankle with the other foot. Now with the right hand that's on the back of his neck, calmly twist his head to the left so he can see your smiling, reassuring face coming over his left shoulder to let him know everything is going to be all right.

Thank you both for the input ; what you are suggesting is exactly that is the kind of knowledge I am lacking right now.

I wonder if many people take that course. I mean, is that something as common as Nitrox or seen as a fringe course that, like @MiloR says "it is just Card collecting" ? Just curious...

 

[greeniguana]

My guess would be " loss of buoyancy control and panic" like you said. He was fine during the second dive ; it doesn't seem to have affected him at all...

Wait. What? This person continued with a second dive after that?

 

[Esprise Me]

I wonder if many people take that course. I mean, is that something as common as Nitrox or seen as a fringe course that, like @MiloR says "it is just Card collecting" ? Just curious...

I would hazard a guess that fewer people take rescue than Nitrox, but I don't know anyone who considers it "card collecting" or makes fun of it the way people make fun of, say, "boat diver." The broad consensus here seems to be that it's quite worthwhile, and more people should take it.

 

[bubblemonkey2]

When I arrived he was in the water working on getting the right amount of weight. That is the most plausible scenario.
I agree with you about the team building or team work...Unfortunately, it is difficult to establish with an insta buddy.

Yeah totally agree, weird things just happen, and all you can do is try to either see it coming, or react somewhat well before it escalates.

Rescue course is great obviously, it sounds like what you experienced was some finite number of panic breaths away from an injured diver in need of textbook handling

Probably everyone's got a story... back when I did my advanced course I had a buddy suddenly and quickly disappear from around 24 metres depth on the final of two 'deep' boat dives. Evidently they corked to the surface, having completely forgotten everything from both their original open water training, as well as the previous day's intensive buoyancy drills. We were relieved that they weren't injured.

I've also seen employed dive guides blast around as fast as possible, lose part of their group, then turn around and freak out when someone was super low on air, directly as a result of their poor guiding. They proceeded to chew out the diver on the surface, as if it had been their fault that the guide was a) going waaay too fast (apparently to stay warmer in their wetsuit?), b) not keeping track of their group, and c) not stopping to communicate at all with the divers attempting to follow them. This is how leaders/guides get people killed.

 

[GrafCanuck]

Salut,
First as greeniguana replied, why would this diver do a 2nd dive.
Second, here's a story that might make you chuckle. 2 years ago this week, I was diving at Canteen Park in Brockville. I was with 2 buddies who were experienced tech divers. They were teaching me how to use an electric scooter. Had a blast but as we were returning from a 45 minute dive in the St Lawrence I noticed a diver panicking about 100 feet offshore. So I rushed over, did a quick assessment, asked if he needed help, dropped my scooter into the water and offered my octo. As it turned out, he was in the Rescue Dive class and it was there last exercise and he was the dummy. Eventually we all landed, had a good laugh and these RD students all said that the class was much better than OW and AOW. I've talked to other RD divers and they all said that the course is great. I did my AOW last year and have RD on my bucket list in the near future. Dive, dive, dive, safely and wear a mask.

 

[fisheater]

With what you know you did the right thing. Only thing you could have done differently would have been to come up from behind and grab the inflator with your left hand. If the diver was truly panicking being in front allows him to grab on to you and then you lose control of the situation. . . .

Many rescue experts strong recommend against trying to control a diver from the rear. Too many rescuers have been severely injured by the panicked diver's tank and/or regulator coming into violent contact with their face or head.

 

[Scraps]

Many rescue experts strong recommend against trying to control a diver from the rear. Too many rescuers have been severely injured by the panicked diver's tank and/or regulator coming into violent contact with their face or head.

Did any of those experts happen to be wrestlers?

I'm skeptical, but I have an open mind. Could you point me to any relevant recommendations or accident reports?

I would much rather be behind a panicked diver where I can control him and he can't reach any of my gear. It's hard to imagine a panicked diver getting any part of his body to move backwards through water fast enough to cause injury. If I'm behind him with an arm and two legs in, he's not going anywhere, and he's not going to hurt me. And if he really won't settle down, I can upgrade to the illegal wrestling holds. That's all easy from behind.

The most likely way a panicked diver can hurt me is by bringing me along on an uncontrolled ascent. If I'm behind him, I can control his inflator and access his dump valves or even unscrew his inflator hose if he somehow managed to fill his bc, whereas he has no access to any part of my buoyancy system. If I fail to prevent his uncontrolled ascent despite all my positional advantages of being behind him, I can completely disengage instantaneously and make a chase/no-chase decision after I'm free. However, if I fail to prevent his uncontrolled ascent after I let myself get into a face-to-face grappling scenario, there are a lot of ways he can ruin my dive.

 

[fisheater]

Did any of those experts happen to be wrestlers?

I'm skeptical, but I have an open mind. Could you point me to any relevant recommendations or accident reports?

I would much rather be behind a panicked diver where I can control him and he can't reach any of my gear. It's hard to imagine a panicked diver getting any part of his body to move backwards through water fast enough to cause injury. If I'm behind him with an arm and two legs in, he's not going anywhere, and he's not going to hurt me. And if he really won't settle down, I can upgrade to the illegal wrestling holds. That's all easy from behind.

The most likely way a panicked diver can hurt me is by bringing me along on an uncontrolled ascent. If I'm behind him, I can control his inflator and access his dump valves, whereas he has no access to any part of my buoyancy system. If I fail to prevent his uncontrolled ascent, and I'm behind him, I can completely disengage instantaneously and make a chase/no-chase decision after I'm free. However, if I fail to prevent his uncontrolled ascent after I let myself get into a face-to-face grappling scenario, there are a lot of ways he can ruin my dive.

I don’t know if they were even wrestlers, but you should reach out to the folks, at Life Guard Systems. World leader in Rescue Diving Courses Butch Hendricks is “the man” for rescue techniques and training.

The problem isn’t that the panicked diver can get to the rescuer with his or her body parts, it’s their tank/regulator may make a violent clash with the rescuer’s face and head. It’s happened.

 

[greeniguana]

Grab their tank valve.

 

[Scraps]

I don’t know if they were even wrestlers, but you should reach out to the folks, at Life Guard Systems. World leader in Rescue Diving Courses Butch Hendricks is “the man” for rescue techniques and training.

The problem isn’t that the panicked diver can get to the rescuer with his or her body parts, it’s their tank/regulator may make a violent clash with the rescuer’s face and head. It’s happened.

PADI's rescue course manual says to either gain wrist control to spin the victim around and get behind or approach from behind. It contains no warning of violent collisions with high velocity tanks or regs.

American Lifeguard Association tells lifeguards to approach flailing victims from behind.

Butch Hendricks seems to have vast experience and credibility. If he has published something on the subject, I'd love to read it. My brief search didn't turn up anything on point.