Valve Stuck On Al80 Tank

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@Zef :
I sure hope I did not trigger all the legalistic thought you presented by stating I don‘t want my DIN valves torqued off the tank by torquing the DIN thread part sideways with an inserted threaded pipe and if anyone did against my wishes I‘d ask them to replace the valve. I sure hope you do not seriously think people would go to court over aN item available for around $40.- (@DGX). It’s as simple as that: My valves come off by engaging them with the proper tool at the therefor intended geometry.

Coincidentally, I once had a DIN valve on a steel tank that all of a sudden, after hydro and VIP the first stage would not turn in anymore without force I was not willing to apply. The darn thing had been ovalized a little and there was a slight ding at the edge. Looked to me like the tank fell. Does not matter if it did and of course no one could ever proof if and when or where it fell. The shop was kind enough to drain the tank, take the valve off, put a new one on at cost and refill the tank. As I was right there with it I noticed in the process that the dip tube also was off the valve when it came out and loose in the tank. Some VIP that must have been done after hydro. That was the second time my trust in what shops do was broken. First time was when I for the first time took my then new AL 19 onto a flight to a destination for pony tank use. I taped clear tape over the tank opening so it could be visually inspected. At the destination that tape was full of aluminum chips. More came out shaking vigorously. I cleaned the threads carefully with a hotel my toothbrush and did what I could to get the interior clean. Luckily I had a skinny single AAA-cell flashlight with me that allowed ne to see. Upon my return I had a more serious discussion with the shops owner telling him point blank that the tank they sold me never had a visual despite what the sticker said. They accommodated me and made promises this will never happen again, while simultaneously insisting that all their visual inspections are done properly of course.
Well, between the two incidents I decided to become my own VIP inspector. Unfortunately a bit too late to still be able to get the older TDI card that does not expire all three years. Oh well. But I know what to think of my tanks first hand. Of course I still need to use shops and will. Haven‘t decided yet if I keep the VIP thing up. Depends on how many tanks I‘ll have after a pending move. Anyway, for me it I.e. also took one quick oil change place visit where they forgot to put the filler cap back on to get me on the track to mostly change myself. At least I know what I got, that a new filter is on and correctly so (not double gasketed), the drain screw is with a new Alu washer and torqued to spec. and the darn filler cap is back on. I quite dislike doing it, but the industry thought me that some self reliance may be beneficial.

So, anyway, just explaining my mentality about my stuff. If possible only people who I know will do it right work on it. If not, I double check as possible. I for one learned to somewhat „distrust“ the „anonymous professional“ in the shop. ... Ymmv.

About the „PADI professional“ knowing better: Thank you for your explanation. I was aware. That may not have been obvious.

@TeamZissou : Well, I‘ll be the judge of my problems and what is being done with my valves and that‘s that.
 
First, you would be hard pressed to get a shop to give you a new valve in the scenario you describe unless you could show proof that they damaged it. In court it would most likely be tossed for lack of merit if you could not show that damage was done, and if you were to claim some impact on the metallurgy of the valve it would be on you, financially speaking, to have it tested/studied to prove that there was damage, and if there was none it would a sunk cost to you, and only possibly recoverable if asked for among the damages you seek to claim.

The scenario you present is quite possibly, along with liability issues, why customers are not allowed in service areas and why service areas are not often open to public specter...and I am not just referring to the SCUBA industry with this. Often times procedure or necessity requires a level of force or manual/mechanical manipulation not expected by the customer, and their knowledge of that force/manipulation, while largely immaterial to well being of the device, would create a sense, of shock, surprise, or worry in the mind of the customer and be bad for business.

In the case of the OP, where the shop rounded off a portion of the the valve with some sort of wrench, it could be argued that they were not using the correct tool or technique to remove the valve....they could counter that the valve and tank were not properly maintained before it was brought to them for service and the damage to the valve was therefore inevitable to remove and further inspect/service the tank. The fact that the OP took the tank with valve installed back from the shop and worked on it, and had his own wrench slip further causing damage, would both support the notion that the tank/valve were not properly maintained, and would provide issues with proving who damaged the valve. The reality is that it would be hard to prove that the shop damaged the valve with malicious intent so recovery by legal means would cost more in time, effort, and money for the OP than the cost of replacing the valve.

Second, a PADI professional level certification has nothing to do with shop procedures/being an expert on the actual specialized service/maintenance of equipment. PADI does not certify people as professionals for the purpose of doing specialized maintenance on SCUBA equipment. There is a PADI certification course for Equipment Specialist but, from my understanding, it is basic/general maintenance, care, and storage of common gear used in SCUBA diving. Here is an excerpt from PADI's brief description of the academic course content:

"You’ll learn about routine care and maintenance procedures as well as scuba equipment storage recommendations. Your instructor will show you how to overcome some common equipment problems and offer equipment configuration suggestions. You may even get to jump into the water to try new or unfamiliar equipment."

-Z
Drinking a little too much PAID Kool-Aid?
You missed the jokes. Someone posts to a 17 year dead thread, but boasts that they are a "PADI Pro". Everyone else got the joke and ran with it.
 
@Zef :
I sure hope I did not trigger all the legalistic thought you presented by stating I don‘t want my DIN valves torqued off the tank by torquing the DIN thread part sideways with an inserted threaded pipe and if anyone did against my wishes I‘d ask them to replace the valve. I sure hope you do not seriously think people would go to court over aN item available for around $40.- (@DGX). It’s as simple as that: My valves come off by engaging them with the proper tool at the therefor intended geometry.

Coincidentally, I once had a DIN valve on a steel tank that all of a sudden, after hydro and VIP the first stage would not turn in anymore without force I was not willing to apply. The darn thing had been ovalized a little and there was a slight ding at the edge. Looked to me like the tank fell. Does not matter if it did and of course no one could ever proof if and when or where it fell. The shop was kind enough to drain the tank, take the valve off, put a new one on at cost and refill the tank. As I was right there with it I noticed in the process that the dip tube also was off the valve when it came out and loose in the tank. Some VIP that must have been done after hydro. That was the second time my trust in what shops do was broken. First time was when I for the first time took my then new AL 19 onto a flight to a destination for pony tank use. I taped clear tape over the tank opening so it could be visually inspected. At the destination that tape was full of aluminum chips. More came out shaking vigorously. I cleaned the threads carefully with a hotel my toothbrush and did what I could to get the interior clean. Luckily I had a skinny single AAA-cell flashlight with me that allowed ne to see. Upon my return I had a more serious discussion with the shops owner telling him point blank that the tank they sold me never had a visual despite what the sticker said. They accommodated me and made promises this will never happen again, while simultaneously insisting that all their visual inspections are done properly of course.
Well, between the two incidents I decided to become my own VIP inspector. Unfortunately a bit too late to still be able to get the older TDI card that does not expire all three years. Oh well. But I know what to think of my tanks first hand. Of course I still need to use shops and will. Haven‘t decided yet if I keep the VIP thing up. Depends on how many tanks I‘ll have after a pending move. Anyway, for me it I.e. also took one quick oil change place visit where they forgot to put the filler cap back on to get me on the track to mostly change myself. At least I know what I got, that a new filter is on and correctly so (not double gasketed), the drain screw is with a new Alu washer and torqued to spec. and the darn filler cap is back on. I quite dislike doing it, but the industry thought me that some self reliance may be beneficial.

So, anyway, just explaining my mentality about my stuff. If possible only people who I know will do it right work on it. If not, I double check as possible. I for one learned to somewhat „distrust“ the „anonymous professional“ in the shop. ... Ymmv.

About the „PADI professional“ knowing better: Thank you for your explanation. I was aware. That may not have been obvious.

@TeamZissou : Well, I‘ll be the judge of my problems and what is being done with my valves and that‘s that.

No worries...and sorry for the legalese...I am working on a 2nd masters degree and the course I am in is one on law. I spent 8 hours each day this past weekend in class lectures via zoom and have a bunch of projects coming up....different torts along with their elements and remedies are currently on the brain so that is what flavored my post today. Sorry.

-Z
 
While the OP has likely solved the issue by now, I have some valves that I’ll never use. Just need servicing. For just postage in the next few days before I ship my dry suit to get a zipper replaced and Rolocks glove system attached, I’d be happy to mail them. I certainly won’t need them when I move to Europe.
 
@Zef : Anyway, for me it I.e. also took one quick oil change place visit where they forgot to put the filler cap back on to get me on the track to mostly change myself. At least I know what I got, that a new filter is on and correctly so (not double gasketed), the drain screw is with a new Alu washer and torqued to spec. and the darn filler cap is back on. I quite dislike doing it, but the industry thought me that some self reliance may be beneficial.

I haven't had any one change the oil in my vehicles but me since 2001. In January of 2001 before driving across the country for military change of duty station (PCS) we had a shop change the oil in our 2 vehicles. We were moving from CT to WA State. We had just passed Grand Island Nebraska when my wife's oil plug fell out going about 70mph on the highway, totally destroying her engine.

We contacted the shop and they referred us to their insurance company who did not want to play ball what-so-ever. I told them they should verify with the shop what torque spec they tightened the plug down to and when the last time the torque wrench was calibrated. They called me back to tell me they would replace the engine in my wife's car because they learned, as I had suspected, the shop did not even have a torque wrench. They wound up covering our lodging and other expenses for the week while we were stuck in Nebraska waiting on the repair.

Before that incident I did my own oil changes, but a snow storm and the closure of the base auto hobby shop presented a scenario that would have been extremely uncomfortable to change the oil outside of a garage that I did not have. Lesson learned though.

I make oil changes easy by installing fumoto/quick valves in place of the drain plugs on all my vehicles. Torque it down once and never have to mess with a wrench again.

Here in Belgium, I loosen my valves before taking tanks to be hydro tested and I take the valves with me, I have heard rumors that some folks wound up with other peoples valves because the test center was so busy that they did a poor job keeping the valves for different tanks separated.

-Z
 
While the OP has likely solved the issue by now, I have some valves that I’ll never use. Just need servicing. For just postage in the next few days before I ship my dry suit to get a zipper replaced and Rolocks glove system attached, I’d be happy to mail them. I certainly won’t need them when I move to Europe.
Nice offer!
To anybody I presume. If I wasn‘t preparing to move in the same direction, I‘d take you up on it.
 
I haven't had any one change the oil in my vehicles but me since 2001. In January of 2001 before driving across the country for military change of duty station (PCS) we had a shop change the oil in our 2 vehicles. We were moving from CT to WA State. We had just passed Grand Island Nebraska when my wife's oil plug fell out going about 70mph on the highway, totally destroying her engine.

We contacted the shop and they referred us to their insurance company who did not want to play ball what-so-ever. I told them they should verify with the shop what torque spec they tightened the plug down to and when the last time the torque wrench was calibrated. They called me back to tell me they would replace the engine in my wife's car because they learned, as I had suspected, the shop did not even have a torque wrench. They wound up covering our lodging and other expenses for the week while we were stuck in Nebraska waiting on the repair.

Before that incident I did my own oil changes, but a snow storm and the closure of the base auto hobby shop presented a scenario that would have been extremely uncomfortable to change the oil outside of a garage that I did not have. Lesson learned though.

I make oil changes easy by installing fumoto/quick valves in place of the drain plugs on all my vehicles. Torque it down once and never have to mess with a wrench again.

Here in Belgium, I loosen my valves before taking tanks to be hydro tested and I take the valves with me, I have heard rumors that some folks wound up with other peoples valves because the test center was so busy that they did a poor job keeping the valves for different tanks separated.

-Z

Don‘t worry about the momentary legalese bias in your first reply. We all have our tunnel vision moments at various times for various reasons.
Wow. (On the car story)
Valves ... you know, I would not know if I truly ended up with my actual valve ore someone else’s. Good point there.
Once I actually moved (to Europe, Germany in my case, but I don’t see things so nationally, now it looks like next year), I will need to learn my way around these things in the local environment...
 
Nice offer!
To anybody I presume. If I wasn‘t preparing to move in the same direction, I‘d take you up on it.
well, anyone not on my ignore list! lol

Pretty much continental US for practical purposes.
 
... I have some valves that I’ll never use....
Long shot,,,,,but would any of those be an " H " valve or similar double port configuration ?
 
Here is what I got. @aviator8 and anyone else interested. I’ll keep one yoke and a couple pro valves for teaching. These have the red/green open indicators. I’ll never use all of them.
0DC8A343-E85A-4140-A278-4970C2740731.jpeg
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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