Long-hose in the time of COVID-19

[Colliam7]

Notice there are never any stories of running OOG by anyone here, it’s always the other guys fault. Because everyone here is so perfect.

Of course we are!

However, in a faint nod to honesty, I will confess - I have run OOG once. But, I didn't mug my buddy, or another diver, or even a curious fish (lips are just too small). Instead, I did a CESA, from 27 feet. Really.

The CESA worked very well. The subsequent personal humiliation was even beneficial - just when I THOUGHT I was perfect, Mister Murphy showed up, kicked me in the head, and swam off. He didn't even offer - actively or passively - either his primary, or his alternate.

 

[Edward3c]

Wow, all you guys that have all these divers “mug” you for the reg in your mouth, you need to get better buddies.
Notice there are never any stories of running OOG by anyone here, it’s always the other guys fault.
Because everyone here is so perfect.

The nearest I’ve got to an OOG situation was in Belize doing a Conch survey at 23-25m. We got distracted be a large group we were tagging and measuring and temporarily forgot to check gauges. Found I was at 45bar with 5min of deco, and away from and reef. I deployed a DSMB ascended did the stops and surfaced with <20bar. Had my dive buddy available the whole time, who surfaced with over 50bar.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Notice there are never any stories of running OOG by anyone here, it’s always the other guys fault.
Because everyone here is so perfect.

???
I reported recently two cases where I was OOG or very low on gas (both when I was quite inexpert):
Personal involvement in a scuba diving related emergency?
Personal involvement in a scuba diving related emergency?
As I have seen this happening to others many, many times, I think that this is something occurring quite often.
See here the statistics of the recent poll:

As you see, OOG is by far the most frequent emergency case.
So I find full appropriate that proper procedures are set for dealing with OOG situations, as they are really frequent.
Also the chances that one of the divers is a COVID-19 spreader are not negligible.
Here in Italy it is estimated that at least 2 millions (over a population of 60 millions) have been in contact with the virus. Most of them are fully asymptomatic, and many seem to not develop any immunity response. So they do not "heal" from the virus, nor get "ill", and continue spreading it. We have probably 1 million of virus spreaders, one every 60 divers. The ratio is probably even higher, as the elderly have been kept protected as much as possible from catching the virus, and instead sportive youngsters or mid-aged are probably the most probable spreaders.
Of course those spreaders are possibly much more dangerous on the boat, but still the risks related to OOA cases are not negligible.
Hence I welcome any procedure dealing with OOA situation as safe as possible.
Adding a dedicated octo ready to be donated, not being used before, seems to me a logical and easy solution.
When working as DM or instructor, I did already always carry such an additional octo, with long hose routed to the left (so "wrong" for me, but good for the buddy).
Possibly with an independent first stage, for maximum redundancy, and possibly on a separate cylinder, or using twins.
All this results in additional safety, and I do not see why people here are upset by adding safety measures also for normal rec diving.

 

[Gareth J]

FROM DAN USA

To many people who drive a car every day, running out of fuel may seem improbable, but according to AAA it is a daily occurrence. Likewise, ineffective breathing-gas management while diving is a recurrent problem. During peak season, DAN Medicine speaks with at least two divers every week who have concerns about having made a "rapid ascent" after finding themselves low on or out of breathing gas. Although the incidence of fatal injuries is very low, about 41 percent of dive fatalities involve insufficient breathing gas as the trigger that led to other harmful events and, ultimately, the death of the diver. Drowning is the leading cause of death in these situations.​

Whilst there is a perception by some that the AAS is never needed. The BSAC report had 133 recorded cases in 2018, (some may or may not have been for OOA incidents, but it can be assumed that breathing gas was compromised in oneway or another). I accept by some that he BSAC data is seen as an unreliable.

DAN also states a minimum of 2 divers per week (during the season) contacting them due to medical issues after OOA rapid ascents. These according to DAN are attributed to out of air (gas) issues. The DAN information didn't break the information down into AAS ascent or CESA ascents. However, the DAN data is only for those that reported a medical issue to DAN. It does not include data from ascents that may have been successful with no complications, or for those who don't have DAN cover. This information appears to be USA centric, rather than UK centric.

Whilst all here are perfect (with the exception of myself).
The Data from the two organisations that I know collect data [1], DAN and BSAC, (which may or may not be 'reliable',) seems to show that Gas issues happen reasonably regularly. One would reasonably assume (?), such issues are more likely to occur in holiday destinations where there are more 'divers' who probably dive infrequently, or have a small number of lifetime or annual dives.

Whilst the overall numbers may be small in comparison to the number of dives annually, they are significant enough to be of concern to those providing diving services at holiday destinations.
Diving fatalities are (thankfully) very small in comparison to other causes of (sports) deaths.
BSAC and DAN records represent a very small percentage of those actually diving. DAN relate specifically to those members calling on them for medical assistance. The BSAC relate to its membership. mainly in the UK. So neither are truly 'representative' of the 'diving population'.



DAN source

[1] I have only quoted DAN and BSAC because I know these two organisation do record diving incidents, and I am or have been a member of both. There may be others, no slight is meant by me not referring to these agencies.

 

[halocline]

What is your evidence for this assertion ?

I've been mugged twice for air, both times the primary was ripped out of my mouth so fast it was gone before I even knew what was happening. Once it was a divemaster trainee during my DM class, kneeling in 6 ft of water during a skills demonstration that went horribly wrong (and she still passed the DM class....) and once was a PADI instructor (diving recreationally) in a near panic moment when, as it turned out, his tank valve was barely open. So it does happen, even with 'well' trained divers.

But, most air share events on dives that I've been on are low-on-air, not out-of-air, and have been orderly. Occasionally when I was DM ing I would notice a client's air running low on a safety stop or late in the dive and offer to share air. It's really impressive to me how gas planning on many recreational, resort dives is basically a 'get in the water, swim around, tell someone when you're about to run out of air'

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I've been mugged twice for air, both times the primary was ripped out of my mouth so fast it was gone before I even knew what was happening. Once it was a divemaster trainee during my DM class, kneeling in 6 ft of water during a skills demonstration that went horribly wrong (and she still passed the DM class....) and once was a PADI instructor (diving recreationally) in a near panic moment when, as it turned out, his tank valve was barely open. So it does happen, even with 'well' trained divers.

But, most air share events on dives that I've been on are low-on-air, not out-of-air, and have been orderly. Occasionally when I was DM ing I would notice a client's air running low on a safety stop or late in the dive and offer to share air. It's really impressive to me how gas planning on many recreational, resort dives is basically a 'get in the water, swim around, tell someone when you're about to run out of air'

I see so many always defend and claim how current training is so much better than the old days, and then there are the old timers who claim training was so much better back then.
Where does gas planning or at least divers looking at their SPG once in a while figure in?
Was that a gross failure throughout history or is that a modern problem?, being there are so many people running out of air all the time and it being a “very common occurrence”.
Is this a current day problem then where modern training has failed miserably? Sounds like it to me because I’ve personally never seen it except for one idiot I took diving once and only once. This guys training was not legit in any way, he did a one day buddy deal course with his sisters husband (family deal) and was signed off.

 

[CaveSloth]

I like this and hope it becomes the new standard because the necklace is a better primary regulator since it is more difficult to be knocked far away from my mouth. I would only say that the long hose regulator should not be clipped to the D-Ring but should be attached via an easy breakaway connector such as an octo holder.

 

[BluEclipse17]

Diving side mount it's common to clip off your long hose while breathing form the other tank. I was taught to use a small zip tie to secure the long hose regulator to the bolt snap. In an emergency situation a good pull will break the small zip tie leaving the bold snap clipped off and the regulator deployable. They make a bunch of products that do this but I see know reason to purchase them when a cheap zip tie can do the trick. I replace it every so often as part of basic matainence and have never had an issue with it breaking by accident.

As far as the whole concern about sharing air. I feel if your that worried about covid maybe you should stay at home and not go diving. In over 300 dives I've never ran out of air. I know it does happen but if I'm truly in an OOA scenario I could care less about covid.

If I run out of air, receive a donated regulator, then get and die from covid- I think it's just my time to go.

 

[rongoodman]

I like this and hope it becomes the new standard because the necklace is a better primary regulator since it is more difficult to be knocked far away from my mouth. I would only say that the long hose regulator should not be clipped to the D-Ring but should be attached via an easy breakaway connector such as an octo holder.

I disagree. Primary donate still has the advantage of ensuring that the OOG diver receives a regulator known to be working and supplying the correct gas. Short term changes in training procedures required because something like COVID-19 don't alter that basic fact.

 

[Jcp2]

The OOG diver gets a working regulator. What about the donor?