Resort's " New Normal " Rule - No AIR 2 or diving your long hose

[MaxBottomtime]

None of my current dive buddies are tech divers. The divers I know who use a long hose primary do so because they understand the benefits.

 

[ibj40]

From DAN:

Disinfection of Scuba Equipment and COVID-19

 

[StefinSB]

The whole thread gave our friends from that little island in the North Sea, who also happen to drive on the wrong side of the road, a platform to voice their dislike for primary donate. Nice ...

 

[drk5036]

So if we are already diving with one 40 inch hose routed under our arms, should we just add a second? Then it doesn’t matter which reg they take, both are equivalent?

 

[Edward3c]

...
I also believe the lawyers where involved with issues over liability over removing a working regulator from a divers mouth that might contribute to that diver being compromised in an incident, that was probably related to the standing rule, never put the rescuer at risk. I don't know the details, just the result.

I was on Council at the time, so we’re some advocates of the hog loop configuration.

The HSE (government’s safety body) undertook a trial on the causes of regulator free flows. Their finding was a regulator had a high >30% probability of going into free flow when flooded, i.e. removed from the mouth underwater. The probability reduced significantly if the reg was turned ‘mouthpiece’ down. This supported real life experience; few reg failures during OOG training (as regs were turned down), but were often reported in real OOG situations.

‘Hog loop’ configurations were not banned because they were unsafe, but because they were inconsistent with BSAC’s deployment method. This was unacceptable to the insures at the time.

@saxman242 I don’t agree with your dogged use of anecdotal evidence over empirical evidence.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Getting off topic folks. I don't think the point of this thread is to argue the validity of anyone's chosen practices, only what we think of an op or resort making such edicts in the Time of Covid

 

[Angelo Farina]

The whole thread gave our friends from that little island in the North Sea, who also happen to drive on the wrong side of the road, a platform to voice their dislike for primary donate. Nice ...

It is not just in UK, as I reported, also here in Italy a number of organisations do not teach primary donate.
Personally I think that there is never just "one right way" of doing the things, there are always several ones.
Primary donate can be effective in some circumstances (definitely in the ones where this method was developed, deep penetration in caves by technical divers, in a very special type of American caves). Then it did proof useful in other environments, such as deep wrecks with multiple gas sources.
These conditions are very different from rec diving in resorts or in guided groups, where most divers are beginners, and simple, standardised procedures and equipment are more easily taught.
So, as I have nothing against those special procedures to be employed in those high-tech environments, please understand and accept that millions of divers all around the world were not trained for primary donate, they are not equipped with a primary very long hose routed under the arms and around the neck (a configuration which requires some manoeuvre for freeing the hose when donating). They are taught to always keep well visible a yellow octo with a longer than normal, but not so long, yellow hose, and that this device is the alternate air source both for them and for their buddy.
When approximately 30 years ago the usage of a secondary rec (at that time it was not an octo, it was a completely independent reg with his own first stage and valve) became standard, and we finally did not need anymore to "buddy breath" from a single reg, this configuration was standardised among substantially all the training agencies worldwide.
Problems started to arise when a significant number of non-technical divers started to employ those DIR-GUE methods outside the context for which they were developed, and assumed it was fine to dive in touristic sites together with "normal" (non tech) recreational divers, which are trained and used to different methods.
The danger comes from the mixture of different approaches, and negates one fundamental point of the Hogarthian-DIR philosophy: very strict standardisation of procedures, methods and equipment.
Also at the time I was working as a professional instructor, sometimes some customer did arrive at the resort with out-of-standard equipment: one of the first, very dangerous dry suits, a single double hose reg with no backup, or a reg without SPG. There was even people not wanting to use a BCD...
Apart some noticeable exceptions, we did never allow those guys to employ their not standard equipment or procedures.
Please understand my position: I was responsible for the safety of our customers, and so I had the right and the power to enforce the safety procedures which my organization had standardised. Customers had the choice to comply, or not to dive. It is simple.
And now with Coronavirus it is the same: a "safety" procedure is mandated, and if you do not want to comply, then you are refused diving. If you think that the procedure can be improved, resulting in better safety, you must convince the regulating body to change the procedure for everyone, You cannot say "hey, but this does not apply to me" and dive without respect for the mandatory procedures.
It appears that GUE did understand this very well, and has adapted equipment and procedures for complying. All other training agencies are doing the same. When conditions change, everything must be adapted accordingly, and you cannot expect to be able to keep the same as before the conditions changed.

 

[Angelo Farina]

And here in Italy the government just released the official guidelines for reopening nautical activities and diving centers:
http://www.mit.gov.it/sites/default/files/media/notizia/2020-05/linee_guida_nautica.pdf
The text is in Italian, but regarding "buddy breathing" here the translation:
"9. Pre-dive safety control systems must be identified by the diving center alternative to the so-called "Buddy Check"; alternative procedures should be identified also for gas sharing in an emergency, such as the use of one or more alternative air sources, depending on the number of participants in the dive, properly sanitized before the dive."
In practice, no air donation among buddies (either primary or secondary), but a number of pony tanks must be deployed (my understanding is at least one for every two divers, so each buddy pair has one).

 

[Celt]

I learned to buddy breath so never used an octopus reg. If some pen pusher thinks I’m going to change the way I dive because of a minute possibility of transmitting covid 19 underwater then there crazy.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I learned to buddy breath so never used an octopus reg. If some pen pusher thinks I’m going to change the way I dive because of a minute possibility of transmitting covid 19 underwater then there crazy.

Perhaps YOU are trained to buddy breath, but if your buddy does not have the same capabilities, I see a problem.
Of course, if you and your buddy dive by yourself, not relying on an organisation which can be held responsible for your safety, then you can do all you want. But when you use the services of an organisation, you must comply with their safety rules.