Garmin Descent MK2

[stuartv]

I don't want a Descent, but all this talk got me to looking and the Fenix 6X sure does look cool. Same overall size as a Descent, too, but with a bigger screen.

And they're on sale for something like $150 off through Memorial Day.

Very tempting. I think I will resist, but tempting nonetheless.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

The 6X is a great watch, if the Mk2 doesn't materialize in time I will likely get a cheap dive computer (with AI) and a MARQ or 6X, but I am still hoping for the best of both worlds

 

[stuartv]

The 6X is a great watch, if the Mk2 doesn't materialize in time I will likely get a cheap dive computer (with AI) and a MARQ or 6X, but I am still hoping for the best of both worlds

"a cheap dive computer (with AI)"

You're looking for a unicorn there...

I noted that Costco has the MARQ Adventurer (they call it the Expedition) for $1400...

 

[ATJ]

I'm interested in SAC, I just don't care that the Garmin isn't great at it since you have to manually add data, but I understand the Garmin Connect is again, a jack of all trades, master of none. Connect was never meant to be an end all be all.

Right, but I wasn't talking to you in my original comments about Garmin Connect and the Garmin Dive app.

I know, you know, anyone that has experienced Garmin Connect knows that it has major short comings, and as you say, is "a jack of all trades, master of none". Those that haven't experienced Garmin Connect, like those that are considering the Descent Mk2, may not know that, so it is useful for them to know.

Further, the discussion shifted (for a page or so) to the Garmin Dive app which appears to have the same shortcomings as Garmin Connect and that was really where I was leading. Just as Garmin Connect is a poor excuse for a dive log app, I don't expect the Garmin Dive app to be any better.

The fact that the Garmin Dive app has the same issue with not allowing accurate entry of metric tank size is one issue. Sure this may not be a big issue for you, but it is for people that use metric and is why all the third party dive apps I have used allow it (and interestingly they are all written in Europe).

The SAC field in Garmin Connect shows that the developers don't understand at all.

The Garmin Dive app also uses the same data store as Garmin Connect so that's also likely to limit the data fields.

The biggest limitation that potential buyers of the Mk2 (or even the Mk1) need to be aware is that Garmin Connect and the Garmin Dive app can't be used without an Internet connection. That means that if you're one a dive trip in a remote location, you can't upload your dives to Connect or the Dive app. You can, of course, use a third party app, like Subsurface, on a laptop, to pull the FIT files directly from the watch and log them that way (and then upload the dives to Connect once you have a connection). People that don't travel with a laptop need to know that.

I'm sure you already knew all that, but this wasn't for you. It is for the potential Mk1/Mk2 users.

 

[stuartv]

Right, but I wasn't talking to you in my original comments about Garmin Connect and the Garmin Dive app.

I know, you know, anyone that has experienced Garmin Connect knows that it has major short comings, and as you say, is "a jack of all trades, master of none". Those that haven't experienced Garmin Connect, like those that are considering the Descent Mk2, may not know that, so it is useful for them to know.

Further, the discussion shifted (for a page or so) to the Garmin Dive app which appears to have the same shortcomings as Garmin Connect and that was really where I was leading. Just as Garmin Connect is a poor excuse for a dive log app, I don't expect the Garmin Dive app to be any better.

The fact that the Garmin Dive app has the same issue with not allowing accurate entry of metric tank size is one issue. Sure this may not be a big issue for you, but it is for people that use metric and is why all the third party dive apps I have used allow it (and interestingly they are all written in Europe).

The SAC field in Garmin Connect shows that the developers don't understand at all.

The Garmin Dive app also uses the same data store as Garmin Connect so that's also likely to limit the data fields.

The biggest limitation that potential buyers of the Mk2 (or even the Mk1) need to be aware is that Garmin Connect and the Garmin Dive app can't be used without an Internet connection. That means that if you're one a dive trip in a remote location, you can't upload your dives to Connect or the Dive app. You can, of course, use a third party app, like Subsurface, on a laptop, to pull the FIT files directly from the watch and log them that way (and then upload the dives to Connect once you have a connection). People that don't travel with a laptop need to know that.

I'm sure you already knew all that, but this wasn't for you. It is for the potential Mk1/Mk2 users.

You can't use Subsurface-mobile on a phone to download from the Descent?

 

[ATJ]

You can't use Subsurface-mobile on a phone to download from the Descent?

I don't believe you can with an iPhone - although I haven't checked recently. You may be able to with an Android phone by connecting the USB based charge to the phone so it can access the data as storage.

I'm pretty sure you can't do it via Bluetooth because the way the connection works with Garmin Connect is somewhat unique. Perhaps someone has worked out how to hack it.

Edit: I just checked Subsurface on my iPhone. Garmin is not listed as one of the vendors for downloading so it can't be done on an iPhone.

 

[dirkhh]

You can't use Subsurface-mobile on a phone to download from the Descent?

No you cannot, neither on iOS nor on Android.
Garmin has helped us develop the download code via USB and supported us with loaner devices. They explicitly asked us to NOT enable BLE download because of the way the firmware is implemented - they are concerned that us connecting directly via BLE would disrupt the ability to upload to Garmin Connect. Given that we appreciate the support from a dive computer vendor, we have honored their request.
Unfortunately, iOS doesn't support USB storage at all, and Android will disable support for generic USB storage in Android 11, so we decided not to support this on either platform.

 

[TuckerIdaho]

The SAC field in Garmin Connect shows that the developers don't understand at all.

No, they understand that their primary market isn't THAT interested, but its a good idea that its there. Remember, 90% of those who are on scubaboard are not their target market.

There seems to be this notion that if developers don't cover everyone from the amateur just getting into a sport to those at their absolute peak of experience that they "don't know what they're doing", when you really only have so much time and resources and need to focus on the core market.

I'd bet they don't sell even a tenth of the number they sell of the Fenix 5x/6x, given that, where do you think they spend their dev budget? If they added every single feature that would make everyone happy you'd probably be looking at a $3000 multisport watch that nobody would buy.

 

[stuartv]

No, they understand that their primary market isn't THAT interested, but its a good idea that its there. Remember, 90% of those who are on scubaboard are not their target market.

There seems to be this notion that if developers don't cover everyone from the amateur just getting into a sport to those at their absolute peak of experience that they "don't know what they're doing", when you really only have so much time and resources and need to focus on the core market.

I'd bet they don't sell even a tenth of the number they sell of the Fenix 5x/6x, given that, where do you think they spend their dev budget? If they added every single feature that would make everyone happy you'd probably be looking at a $3000 multisport watch that nobody would buy.

Even amateurs just getting into the sport should be, and often are, interested in their SAC. Actually, it seems MORE likely among newer divers.

The issues with metric are not a reflection of Garmin knowing the market and coding for it. They are issues of the developers not knowing how divers do things in metric. Their work and your attitude here are extremely American-centric.

Maybe if a Garmin had put in proper support for metric divers, the Descent would have sold more in Europe and they would have had a business case to make a Mk 2 by now...

 

[Peter Bomberg]

"a cheap dive computer (with AI)"

You're looking for a unicorn there...

I noted that Costco has the MARQ Adventurer (they call it the Expedition) for $1400...

Ahh yes the unicorn hunt, well dreaming is good, but realistically something used or entry level, I know I sound silly but honestly the more my dive computer can do the less I want it to do (what I really want is a dive computer where the first screen has only gas time remaining, time to surface, ND/O2 clock, alarms and everything else is on a secondary screen (I know I may be alone in the min approach (but that info is really all that I need to know on an ongoing basis, now that I solely do recreational warm water diving) dive time sure if I am getting cold otherwise it's typically capped at 60-80min, tank pressure (inverse of DTR in an oversimplified world), bottom time and depth (are part of the O2/ND clocks (again oversimplified), depth would be an alarm setting (based on mix).

Now back to the topic, I played more with the Garmin app and I am tilting towards the either remove many aspects and make it into a pure dive logging app (leave the what if, and all other more advanced settings out of it) but I know that wont fly as many divers want a basic dive planner and equipment tracking or they need to add presets (default to last used) and fix fundamental things such as SAC, including alerts in the graphs, etc. That being said for a garmin user (like me) it's still going to be the goto app to get a quick view.

And I have admit I am a hypocrite, I have always told my son dont buy a super expensive smart watch they are like phones constantly evolving and by design they will be obsolete in 2-3 years, but I am seriously eyeing the MARQ Captain: American Magic Edition, however I will wait for the Descent MK2 or Sep/Oct (my deadline if travel is allowed in Dec).