Uninventing the plastic zipper

[MaxBottomtime]

I've had ten drysuits. The first nine all had brass zippers. All failed. One failed after less than fifty dives. I read a post by someone at Dive Right In Scuba who said the new version of the TZip was perfected and will not leak. Despite warnings by Marc at Superior Diving Repair, I had a new TZip installed on my current suit. I haven't had a drop of water in the suit. I'm going to stick with the plastic zipper until it proves me wrong.

 

[lexvil]

The failure of these plastic zippers is very widely documented. It seems that they come in two flavours: the ones that die somewhere between 30 and 70 dives, and the ones that last for perhaps 300+ dives.

The first ones on the market, the T-zips, failed "en masse" to the point where most suit manufacturers (including SANTI, DUI and Bare that I personally know of) abandoned them in favour of YYK plastic zippers. I can personally attest to the crappiness (is that a word?) of the T-zips, having replaced them three times, thankfully, always under warranty.

I'm currently using a YYK plastic in a new suit with perhaps 150 dives on it. It hasn't failed, but it's fussy af and I find I need to lube the dock before literally every dive. This leads me to believe that it's the lube that is doing the sealing, not the zipper. I think I can honestly say that it is never 100% dry. The degree of dampness varies widely for some reason. Literally everyone here dives dry, and my experience is pretty typical, if not better than most.

As for why the suit manufacturers use them, I think the answer is simple: they're cheap.

All of this is in contrast to my previous 30 years of diving dry with a brass (which is "metal") zipper where I NEVER had to replace a zipper. 700, 800 dives was typical before I would replace the suit, and hence the zipper too.

@CAPTAIN SINBAD I agree with you. I love the plastic in a front-zip suit because of it's flexibility, but if/when this suit fails, I'll replace it with a brass one.

I use a TiZip which is a replacement for a brass zipper, I’ve had brass that failed in a few hundred dives and brass that has lasted forever, meaning the suit had other issues and was replaced before the zip failed, my TiZip has been faultless, easy to zip only needing a touch of silicone at the docking end every so often, brass needs pretty constant attention. I like that the plastic zip is a mechanical lock more than the brass squeezing tiny thin strips of material together, this bonded material often begins to fray, fraying is the beginning of delamination and is shortly followed by weeping leaks that get worse over time.

Try taking a brass zipper, folding it over (like the video) and place it on the softest surface you can find, press down on it and see what happens, I don’t condone doing this with any zipper but the plastic may survive the brass will not.

I would not reject a suit because it uses brass but if I’m buying one with the option of plastic I will take the plastic.

 

[loosenit2]

 

[AustinV]

I have both. My HOG suit has the brass and my Otter has the plastic.

Jim did you add the plastic zip to the Otter later? I just bought an Otter and was told it comes in metal zip only, might have just been the model suit I selected. Just curious.

 

[Stoo]

Try taking a brass zipper, folding it over (like the video) and place it on the softest surface you can find, press down on it and see what happens, I don’t condone doing this with any zipper but the plastic may survive the brass will not.

Why on earth would I do that? That sort of "test" is completely irrelevant, just as SANTI's original ad was... the one where they pounded the folded zipper with a hammer.

I'm glad you have been fortunate with yours. As I said, the YKK I have now has been ok, and I've just become accustomed to a little dampness on each dive.

 

[lexvil]

Why on earth would I do that?

I'm glad you have been fortunate with yours. As I said, the YKK I have now has been ok, and I've just become accustomed to a little dampness on each dive.

It was a reference to the doubt toward the video, I wouldn’t do with any zipper but it was inferred (not by you) that there was some skulduggery it the method shown. I haven used a YKK plastic zip so I can’t say anything about those and in fact I’ve only personal experience with the one TiZip but it has been faultless, I don’t know how many dives I have on it but it is a lot and I would do it again.

 

[broncobowsher]

My lengthy research from a few years back...

Brass, great for the daily commercial diver. Backzip. Lays flat. Not so good on a front zip where it is forced into tighter bends.

Plastic. Not as durable if used daily. But is a lot more forgiving in a front zip application. Lot more flexible.

If I was doing commercial diving I would only be looking at brass zips that were back mounted.
But as I am a recreational diver who doesn't have a paid crew to dress me I have a front zip suit. I just got my 3rd front zip suit the other day (still has not been in the water). The first was a brass zip. Very stiff, hard to get it to lay right, felt like there was a stick going across my chest. Also the zip started to leak. Between the zip and the wasn't really y size but was a good starter suit I got a new suit. Suit #2 is a plastic zip and that zip has outlasted the delaminating material. Yea, the suit I picked no longer exists because the fabric was a poor choice and came apart from the inside. So even though the suit only lived 3 years the zipper outlasted the suit. The newest suit, also a front zip plastic.

 

[JohnnyC]

Brass for me. The plastic horror stories over the years have made me hesitant to get one on a personally owned suit.

 

[Storker]

Brass, great for the daily commercial diver. Backzip. Lays flat. Not so good on a front zip where it is forced into tighter bends.

Ok, l have only roughly one and a half hundred dry dives, in both back and front zip suits, almost all of them with a brass zipper. So I might well be clueless here.

But I'm still wondering how you're shaped if your front zip is forced into tight bends. Mine aren't, no matter if they're brass or plastic.

 

[Storker]

Brass for me. The plastic horror stories over the years have made me hesitant to get one on a personally owned suit.

My current suit has a plastic zip. I was pretty sceptical, but apparently those horror stories were caused by childhood diseases and that those have been overcome now. I'm still withholding judgment until I have at least a few dozen dives on the suit, though.