Teaching quality AND quantity

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Sorry, I'm still unclear. The 24 skills--ie. reg retrieval, OOA, CESA, equipment/weight belt on/off, deep water entry, etc.----
Where are these 24 skills initially taught for OW students--in a pool or in the ocean/lake?

Sorry I thought you meant the DM skills.
OW skills are taught in "confined" open water, which often means poor visibility, current and wave. Of course not to the point of danger but enough to run through them sloppily just to meet the standards and move on.
The shops here are not part of resorts that have pools. To get pool time you have to book and pay for it. No way that's going to be the case if the same can be achieved in the sea for free and PADI standards be met anyway.

DM and IDC training is done in the pool, but only out of "courtesy".

I just want to make it clear that I honestly think the DC I work at is the poster for excellence compared to the majority of other shops I've seen operating. Still, I just want to know if there's anything I can do in my own little to make things better.
 
I really feel for you - your dilemma is a perfect example of what is wrong with the industry. Business owners will very often prioritise $$$ over training quality and will compromise safety and/or turn out poor divers as a result.

Personally, I refuse to teach an OW course in less than 4 days and have an absolute maximum ratio of 3 students per instructor for all courses from OW to Tech and Cave. My name on a c-card is more important than a few extra bucks. I am in the fortunate position of owning the centre, and realise that insisting on teaching a properly in-depth course with optimum ratios may not be possible if you are reliant on continued employment at a "pile it high, sell it cheap" centre.

I would absolutely contend that any course taught in 2 days with a maximum ratio of 7 other divers is a ****** course, regardless of how good the instructor thinks they are.

One of the simplest things agencies could do to improve safety and standards would be to reduce the ridiculous 8:1 ratio that is currently allowed. I know this is an absolute maximum and can be reduced at the instructors discretion, but if it is allowed by standards then the lower end shops will maximise their profits by insisting on going all the way to the maximum.
 
Yes, this is a new change. In an IE, candidates can still conduct those 2 skills on the knees, but they won't get a 5.

Edit: Skills are mask removal & clear + reg recovery.
Interesting in that my opinion are these are two of the easiest skills that are doable NB. I wonder why the other 4-5 can be done on knees and still get a 5? I buck the SB trend in saying that doff & don of unit would seem to be harder NB.
 
A good instructor can easily become a bad instructor if he’s forced to fight against the clock or face firing.
Sounds to me like you've found an awful dive shop rather than have found a problem with PADI. The illustrious @boulderjohn enlightened me with regards to padi's standards and practices, and the things you've mentioned don't sound like what I've been told.

Ditch the shop you're associated with and hook up with another or open your own business. Sounds like the shop in question is shady at best.

I thought you Europeans were all about CMAS rather than other agencies such as paddy or gooey.
 
Sounds to me like you've found an awful dive shop rather than have found a problem with PADI. The illustrious @boulderjohn enlightened me with regards to padi's standards and practices, and the things you've mentioned don't sound like what I've been told.

Ditch the shop you're associated with and hook up with another or open your own business. Sounds like the shop in question is shady at best.

I thought you Europeans were all about CMAS rather than other agencies such as paddy or gooey.

I don't personally think PADI is to blame for everything, but of course it doesn't help if their standards are set at the lowest common denominator. DCs will exploit that (and have for decades, that's the point) to maximize profit, just like @Lanny said. If their standards were even a little higher, DCs would not be able to squeeze as many courses in as little time as possible because meeting those standards would require more time and effort.
 
Yes if you perform maintaining perfect buoyancy a candidate will get higher scores. I might be wrong but I think it is a must to pass now.

In order to get a 5. You can still do it on your knees in your IE and get a 3.

I’m going through the programme and we have to do everything NB except when required.

That's how it should be done. Props to your CD, but it is not a requirement.
 
Okay folks, we all know I'm cynical about the industry. Super cynical. I admit it.

I sincerely think that even the low standards of agencies (not just PADI) are being violated all the time. If we look at the Open Water Diver guidelines from the WRSTC (attached).

Page 3: Open water certification qualifies a certified diver to procure air, equipment, and other services and engage in recreational open water diving without supervision.

spilling over to page 4: A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver..

How often do we see open water divers unable or too scared to plan and execute their own dives after certification? (@giovyledzep, that's why I wrote this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WPspW1jpgXJFwBcoQi9yR7OmgzSR4VrN)

If we read through the WRSTC standards, you see they are really low. And often these are not even met.

I'm not looking at creating GUE T1 ready divers after open water, but per DAN's 2016 recommendations, buoyancy and proper weighting need to be fixed.
 

Attachments

  • 03 - Open Water Diver.pdf
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Sorry I thought you meant the DM skills.
OW skills are taught in "confined" open water, which often means poor visibility, current and wave. Of course not to the point of danger but enough to run through them sloppily just to meet the standards and move on.
The shops here are not part of resorts that have pools. To get pool time you have to book and pay for it. No way that's going to be the case if the same can be achieved in the sea for free and PADI standards be met anyway.

DM and IDC training is done in the pool, but only out of "courtesy".

I just want to make it clear that I honestly think the DC I work at is the poster for excellence compared to the majority of other shops I've seen operating. Still, I just want to know if there's anything I can do in my own little to make things better.
Got it thanks. Agree with all on ditching that shop. As I'm sure you know, open "confined" water in lieu of pool doesn't include conditions you describe.
 
This is what I was looking for... mind blown.
So simple yet so effective and I can see it saving LOADS of time.

I do like the 'deco station' suspended bar idea. Might have to rig one up in the pool and try it out. Thanks for sharing.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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