Need help diagnosing a problem with my HID

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halocline

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Howdy, I have a light monkey HID that's out of warranty. Before I send it back to them, I want to try to figure it out myself. The problem is when it hasn't been used for a few months, it won't fire up the first time I turn it on. On this last trip, I charged it up, brought it to the dive, got in the water and turned it on....nothing. It took maybe 15-20 flips of the switch to get it to fire. Once that happens, it works fine for the rest of the trip. The cord seems fine; I can wiggle and tug at it and there's no sign of a problem. It's not cold water. Any ideas what I might look at?
 
1. If the battery is OK ( no memory effect on NiMH ?) otherwise punch it with higher current to wake it up and cycle discharge/charge several times with proper charger
2 switch ( some water intriusuion /leakage ) check it with ohm meter ( best ;most accurate way is 4-wire method with higher current (1-10A) DC)
3 if the electronics fails , then mostly because of electrolyte capacitors in the ballast electronics ( higher ESR )

in that order:)
 
1. If the battery is OK ( no memory effect on NiMH ?) otherwise punch it with higher current to wake it up and cycle discharge/charge several times with proper charger
2 switch ( some water intriusuion /leakage ) check it with ohm meter ( best ;most accurate way is 4-wire method with higher current (1-10A) DC)
3 if the electronics fails , then mostly because of electrolyte capacitors in the ballast electronics ( higher ESR )

in that order:)

Howdy,

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I actually forgot I had posted this here. It's a Lithium Ion battery, not sure if that makes any difference. This problem occurs regardless of whether the battery is fully charged or not. It is a newer battery than light head, so I suspect the battery is not the problem.

I can get a new switch from LM for $15, and I have thought that maybe the switch is the problem. So I'm going to replace it. I also found a used-but-good bulb and ballast/igniter. I found a thread on another forum that said that if the bulb has trouble firing, usually you can try to fire it in a dark room, and if there is any faint pulsing glow or discharge in the bulb, it means the bulb is bad. If not, it's likely the igniter. I intend to try switching the igniter out and see if that does the job. The odd thing about this issue is once the light fires, it will continue to start up reliably for the duration of a dive trip with no problems at all. It's only the first firing after the light has sat for a long time that is problematic.

I would really appreciate any help from someone knowledgeable as I try to fix this. If I send it LM, they will upgrade it to a LED lighthead, which would be great but expensive. I wouldn't mind trying to get a few more years out of this light and then just buy a new one.
 
Switch is easy to check with cooper wire to bypassing it .

Electronics heat up and work , problem is some fault component , but real problem is electronic encapsulation to get it.
We have in lab 3D X ray scanning machine like
phoenix v|tome|x s CT 3D Metrology X-ray Scanner | Inspection & NDT
I see sometimes problems ( our company made drives for power BLCD motors ) when potting compound destroys electronics components
( electronic and compound have different thermal properties than PCB and old components TH (through hole) work without problems , but small SMD( surface mounted ) might be in bad soldering joint and heating up potting compound and evade or short soldering pads (special very small SMD )

HID is out , special in small portable lights , bulbs , ballast are expensive and hard to get … waste of money and time
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: could be very interesting update your old HID to modern led using and is DIY friendly

Philips H7 Ultinon LED 6000K LMGTFY ( leds must be small and powerful and in same position as HID meniscus )

instead of standard test tube you need open tube and cool down led in front of light instead of back of the light with Alu metal plug. You only have to solder two thin cca 0,75 - 1,00 mm ''magnet wire'' back to ballast cavity to led driver …( you get that in kit) ….

sketch is old study - i think that is very clean and working solution

i want to made this once but , now I don't have body anymore and other lights work ;-)
 

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Is this a 21W HID? Light Monkey still sells new HID lights. I can't imagine them requiring a LED update if you are satisfied with the HID. Joel and Corey are top notch when it comes to customer service. In this case, poke and hope engineering might not be your best bet. LM is currently blowing out their 24W LED lights, so the pain of an upgrade may lessened if you decide to go that route. I've been using a LM21W LED for years without issues.
 
Is this a 21W HID? Light Monkey still sells new HID lights. I can't imagine them requiring a LED update if you are satisfied with the HID. Joel and Corey are top notch when it comes to customer service. In this case, poke and hope engineering might not be your best bet. LM is currently blowing out their 24W LED lights, so the pain of an upgrade may lessened if you decide to go that route. I've been using a LM21W LED for years without issues.

It is a LM 21w HID, and I did speak with them about it. They're not requiring that I upgrade, they could fix it, but since the problem is very hard to replicate, they suspect fixing it would mean replacing the bulb, ballast, and ignitor. So they felt that upgrading it to LED would be a better use of my money, and I agree, and I might still be doing that. I have no problem with LM's service department.

It's a question of, can I fix it for a very low cost myself and use it for another couple of years? If so, I'd like to try that, if not, I'll take a deal for an LED upgrade. I did find someone who traded me a working LM HID light head and ballast for a couple of old 2nd stages I had around, so when those arrive I'll have a look and see if I can do anything.

Here's a question for anyone who knows about these. Mine is the older style remote ballast, with the deeper lid on the canister, and no rectangular protrusion on the light head. My understanding is that this means that the ballast and ignitor are in the lid, is this correct? How difficult is it to replace those components?
 
You have 2 options separated ballast (in top lid) and ignitor (in head) or integrated ( ballast+ igniter ). Between lid and head you have 65V DC cca 0,32 A. Igniter generates high voltage spark ( forgot number but sure over 8000V DC ( depends of distance between electrodes )
I work with them before many years (i hate them ) on left is 24W DC and 21W HID DC bulb on right is 21W ballast DC . Version with separated ballast and igniter i never have but i have saw it in Krnica Croatia ( 1/3 of left size is igniter and 2/3 ballast )
24W HID bulb is lower from my light ( now is replaced with SST90 )
full

full

full

That mean really good wire insulation . I don't have any HID thing now
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OOT
Cars have AC HID ballast ( still igniter is DC ) . D1S , D1R have igniter in the socket and can be separated

HID Bulb Types and Identification - D1S D1R D2S D2R D3S D3R D4S D4R etc - SKBOWE PWM filter
 
Okay, so mine must be the split ballast, because I took the cover off the lid, and inside there was only a small rectangular piece with 2 wires coming out of each end connected to the switch and banana plugs. That must be the ballast. I'm guessing the integrated ballast is the later design with both ignitor and ballast in the light head, nothing except the switch in the lid. Correct?
 
Correct . They want to made simple use ( and safety use ) , so all hi-pot wires and circuits producers stuck in one housing and potted it.

Former Salvo wants to make head smaller as possible and he took advantage of it.

Because circuit is very sensitive (because mixing low voltage and high voltage , small hybrid control circuit on ceramic and rough inductors and capacitors and all potted together .

Automotive circuits are much more sophisticated and quality with dedicated IC.
 

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