Should I get PADI Dive Master?

[mcohen1021]

So here’s a few things I thought about when I decided to get a DM cert…

1. I was 19 when I got my OW card. I did not know what I was going to do when I grew up… I could have easily become an instructor.
2. Classes were dirt cheap since I took the classes in college.
3. I wanted to expand the level of training so that if I was in a bad situation, maybe I could figure out a way to save my own or buddy’s lives. Which I feel I did that fateful day in Cozumel. Since each of my classes ran a full semester, I felt my training was better than in a dive shop.
4. I wanted to pass on the love of diving to others, so I worked classes for years with my instructor.

I think that going through the DM cert program was beneficial bc not only were my classes longer, but being around other divers/instructors and teaching classes really helped me develop my skills and preferred practices. When I got to the clear blue waters, it was easy like being in an aquarium.

 

[Zef]

One does not need to enroll in a DM course to improve their diving...they simply need to dive more, and perhaps dive with people that are good divers so they can mentor and give one feedback.

How does one find good divers to dive with? That can be a challenge, I would suggest that in the winter, most (not all) folks who are braving the cold air and water temps are probably going to be upwards of average in skillset. The real test of who is a good diver and who isn't is to go dive with people and see if they are s#@t show underwater or not....and even if they are they can still give you good feedback about how you dive.

DM courses are not cheap an the insurance, professional fees, and supposed liability are not really worth incurring unless you are going to be working as a professional. One can dive like a pro by developing their skills....have a buddy video you underwater for the most objective feedback. When the time comes that you want to take advantage of a work opportunity that requires professional status you should be more than prepared if you are diving regularly and honing your skills.

The PADI DM program reviews rescue but it does not educate one on being a rescue diver...in fact, in my class I was asked to and graded on my ability to rescue/recover an unconscious diver from the bottom to include all steps through commencing CPR once I reached shore. There was no instruction on this, it is expected that one can do this as to take DM one has to already be rescue certified.

A good DM course is designed to test and evaluate your abilities....it is a check and balance on whether the diver enrolled in the class meets the criteria to be a "Pro".

One should have enough of a skillset that they can watch a demonstration either live or by video of the required demonstration skills and go work on them....they are not difficult to perform and it is not difficult to slow them down and exagerate the motions to convey to a student. Take a certified diver and role play with them in a pool and do some skill demonstrations and then watch what they do when they mirror you/repeat the skill.

None of the requirements for DM are secret so one can review and work on becoming a "better diver" without incurring any cost.

The DM cert card is only valuable if you need it because you want to work as a pro. The card and @ $3 will get you a cup coffee....maybe.

-Z

 

[lowflyer]

There are only two reasons to do the DM course IMO. Either you want to be a pro and move on to becoming an instructor or you very much enjoy teaching and assisting instructors. If your reason is to help teach you better consider how much that is going to cost you in terms of time, PADI or other agency fees, and liability insurance. These costs are substantial. Free air fills and maybe reduced gear costs don't come close to covering the costs in my experience.

I'm giving up assisting instructors because of the liability issues and cost of protecting myself. If your shop provides liability insurance, make sure the coverage is enough to protect your assets. Don't just accept the statement that you are "covered."

As far as doing the DM course to become a better diver, I agree with others that there are other, less expensive ways. Rescue is important. There are good Specialty courses that one can learn from if taught by a good instructor to standards. Some people confuse Specialty Courses with Adventure Dives and think they are worthless. Adventure dives don't really teach much, IMO, but many Specialty courses can if chosen wisely. I cannot think of a skill covered in the DM course that can't be perfected in other courses except maybe the exchange of dive unit with another person underwater.

Of course getting out and diving a lot is important also.

 

[Zef]

I cannot think of a skill covered in the DM course that can't be perfected in other courses except maybe the exchange of dive unit with another person underwater.

I agree with everything you wrote except the part I quoted above.

Taking gear off and exchanging it with another can be related to taking gear off and handing it off to another diver in open water while handling an entanglement situation. While it may not be a part of the curriculum of other courses it does not need to be to be practiced and perfected.

There are scant few "specialty" classes that are worthwhile in my opinion (notable exceptions include courses that address diving in an overhead environments, CCR, and Nitrox).

-Z

 

[TMHeimer]

There are only two reasons to do the DM course IMO. Either you want to be a pro and move on to becoming an instructor or you very much enjoy teaching and assisting instructors. If your reason is to help teach you better consider how much that is going to cost you in terms of time, PADI or other agency fees, and liability insurance. These costs are substantial. Free air fills and maybe reduced gear costs don't come close to covering the costs in my experience.

I'm giving up assisting instructors because of the liability issues and cost of protecting myself. If your shop provides liability insurance, make sure the coverage is enough to protect your assets. Don't just accept the statement that you are "covered."

As far as doing the DM course to become a better diver, I agree with others that there are other, less expensive ways. Rescue is important. There are good Specialty courses that one can learn from if taught by a good instructor to standards. Some people confuse Specialty Courses with Adventure Dives and think they are worthless. Adventure dives don't really teach much, IMO, but many Specialty courses can if chosen wisely. I cannot think of a skill covered in the DM course that can't be perfected in other courses except maybe the exchange of dive unit with another person underwater.

Of course getting out and diving a lot is important also.

All good points.
Actually the equipment exchange is there only to present task loading for a DMC. Doffing/donning your own stuff is the skill.
But, semantics.
Agree also about perks not covering DM course costs. Before I took the course I made sure I would be PAID to assist. After my 4 years I came out a bit in the black (including lots of gas mileage), considering pay was basically minimum wage. It was worth it and I enjoyed it.

 

[Diving Dubai]

There are some valid points raised, especially regarding costs. The course isn’t cheap, and continued membership, plus insurance adds to the costs

Yes you can take other courses, I’m firm believer that people should take Tech 40 or other ITT but DM does teach some useful skills and has tangible benefits not easily identified

Where you take it and with whom, are really important. Taking DM using only a quarry of OW for instance is a waste of time. Any shop or instructor that tells you that you can complete the course in 10 days, is sell you a and not a course.

A student wanting to complete the course in 10 days is a card collector.

The course is a journey, the relationship tweet candidate and instructor changes - you’re being mentored more than taught.. The skills circuit, done in a pool (not on a 15’ platform) will teach you a lot about buoyancy

The biggest lesson you will learn is Ewing responsible for strangers. Some will be excellent divers who you will look up to, some average. Others will be novices, and you’ll you’ll meet the idiots, who’s knowledge and abilities is far below their own ideas

DM course is my preferred course to teach. It requires a lot of effort and time with regard to certs gained - so I don’t do it for cert count. I’m explicit with my expectations at the beginning of the course, but I’m there to get the candidates to that standard, and enjoy it. It’s more rewarding (for me) than teaching OW

DM isn’t a status symbol, it can be a millstone - as soon as you declare being a Dm people have expectations, fail to meet them and you lose credibility

It can be a great course, but you should enter it with solid skills, you should be prepared to work in and out of the water

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Taking gear off and exchanging it with another can be related to taking gear off and handing it off to another diver in open water while handling an entanglement situation. While it may not be a part of the curriculum of other courses it does not need to be to be practiced and perfected.

If your gear is entangled, would you be taking it off and handing it to another person? I really thought that this exercise was absolutely silly. Everyone knows about it before hand. But anyway, if you are entangled, and your buddy can't help you (maybe you are solo), then yes, you may have to take off your kit. But you will be keeping it with you as you attempt to free yourself from whatever.

The only thing that DMing taught me was to heard cats. As a future dive op owner, there is value in this to me. But divers in general? I don't see it.

 

[Zef]

If your gear is entangled, would you be taking it off and handing it to another person? I really thought that this exercise was absolutely silly. Everyone knows about it before hand. But anyway, if you are entangled, and your buddy can't help you (maybe you are solo), then yes, you may have to take off your kit. But you will be keeping it with you as you attempt to free yourself from whatever.

The only thing that DMing taught me was to heard cats. As a future dive op owner, there is value in this to me. But divers in general? I don't see it.

I don't disagree with you....I said "can be related"...but that would be a stretch no matter how you slice it. The reality is that PADI is not going to authorize a stress test like they do at the US Navy Dive school where combat divers are physically harassed and disoriented underwater in an effort to induce stress and see how they react.

I did the gear swap without issue and could not believe how much of a big deal the other DMs in the club made the whole ordeal out to be. Swapping masks is not really any different than pulling off, replacing, and clearing ones mask. Pulling off and swapping fins should not cause any distress, and pulling off and replacing your bcd is a basic open water skill...the only difference is handing it off to your partner and then donning theirs at the same time....this whole maneuver does not need to be stressful at all. If you pull your bc off and position it ready to hand over and your buddy does the same you can fairly seamlessly exchange them with eachother and don them without losing control of your buoyancy.

The closest thing to a challenge for me was that we did a dive scenario one day in December last year and it was cold enough that I wore a thicker undergarment in my drysuit and did not have enough weight to stay down and did not want to hold the dive up by walking up to the cars to get more lead so I just grabbed a big rock and cradled it during the dive. I think it was the deep dive scenario of the course. The DM assisting the course was told to act like a noob to test my group management skills in the water...no problems as I had already done a lot of diving/herding with new divers. She decided to mess with me and give me the out of air signal...this forced me to drop my rock to manage the simulated out of air situation....still no problem as I just ensure my wing and suit were empty and used her BC to control our ascent...it was all good until she signaled end of exercise and I had to swim down against my positive buoyancy and find my rock to continue the dive to our exit point....in then end it was not a big deal, my instructor mentioned that hanging on to a rock was not the most professional thing to do but it was either that or have the group sit in 4c water while I took off my rig, hiked up to the car to find more lead, and hike back, install the lead, and re-don my rig. I evaluated the scenario at the beginning of the dive and made a command decision that I would just adapt to the situation...and when I explained that he was impressed because that is what is required in the real world...things are quite often never perfect. Things go wrong often unexpectedly and one needs to be able to think through the situation with composure and control.

-Z

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I don't disagree with you....I said "can be related"...but that would be a stretch no matter how you slice it. The reality is that PADI is not going to authorize a stress test like they do at the US Navy Dive school where combat divers are physically harassed and disoriented underwater in an effort to induce stress and see how they react.

I did the gear swap without issue and could not believe how much of a big deal the other DMs in the club made the whole ordeal out to be. Swapping masks is not really any different than pulling off, replacing, and clearing ones mask. Pulling off and swapping fins should not cause any distress, and pulling off and replacing your bcd is a basic open water skill...the only difference is handing it off to your partner and then donning theirs at the same time....this whole maneuver does not need to be stressful at all. If you pull your bc off and position it ready to hand over and your buddy does the same you can fairly seamlessly exchange them with eachother and don them without losing control of your buoyancy.

The closest thing to a challenge for me was that we did a dive scenario one day in December last year and it was cold enough that I wore a thicker undergarment in my drysuit and did not have enough weight to stay down and did not want to hold the dive up by walking up to the cars to get more lead so I just grabbed a big rock and cradled it during the dive. I think it was the deep dive scenario of the course. The DM assisting the course was told to act like a noob to test my group management skills in the water...no problems as I had already done a lot of diving/herding with new divers. She decided to mess with me and give me the out of air signal...this forced me to drop my rock to manage the simulated out of air situation....still no problem as I just ensure my wing and suit were empty and used her BC to control our ascent...it was all good until she signaled end of exercise and I had to swim down against my positive buoyancy and find my rock to continue the dive to our exit point....in then end it was not a big deal, my instructor mentioned that hanging on to a rock was not the most professional thing to do but it was either that or have the group sit in 4c water while I took off my rig, hiked up to the car to find more lead, and hike back, install the lead, and re-don my rig. I evaluated the scenario at the beginning of the dive and made a command decision that I would just adapt to the situation...and when I explained that he was impressed because that is what is required in the real world...things are quite often never perfect. Things go wrong often unexpectedly and one needs to be able to think through the situation with composure and control.

-Z

I'd say no agency is going to have a real stress test. I just see the equipment exchange as pointless.. I really wish agencies (not pointing my finger at just PADI) would teach more about identifying passive panic, where people just shut down and have zero awareness. I learned the hard way, and glad nothing came out of it.

Though doing the DM equipment exchange with someone who freezes up sucks. Trust me.

 

[TMHeimer]

The only thing I could see as any of a challenge with the equipment exchange is doing it while buddy breathing. This was no problem for me (us), as I recall we did a whole lot each time before switching the mouthpiece for the other guy. I did it a second time to help out in another DM course which didn't go quite as smoothly--my partner was a very small woman, so equipment fit wasn't that easy, and she wasn't as calm about getting things done while buddy breathing.

Zef--Good job with the "rock" maneuver. I've done that a couple of times after loosing a couple of weight pockets (not improperly fastened, just really old and buckles broke). You have to make allowances in cold water, as you say. Sometimes on OW courses here the objective is yes, to get all the ocean skills done correctly, but also to get out when all the minimum requirements are fulfilled. Not gunna no take a half hour tour diving wet in 45 (or less) degree water (with maybe a second dive to follow).