Diving and Exercise Training ( Running for a 10K)

[Roy_W]

Hi and Happy New Year to all,

In this rather cold period I do not dive, I prefer to Ski as do many of our club members ..

In order to retain a minimum of form I have begin running 3 or 4 times per week.. Limiting distance to around 5 or 6 kms ( about 3 miles).. There is a mini marathon run, 10K for me, coming up in May and I would to particiate but I have a few questions relating to my running/training and the possible conflicts with the new diving season which will start around April.


Diving days for our club ar Sunday morning, dive begins around 10am and Tuesday evenings around 18:30. ( The Tuesday session won't start until around the end of May).

If I train for a 10k race, I would to start a new plan soon ( start of february) and I would be training 4 or 5 day per week and this is where my dilemma begin.

1 : If I run on a Saturday morning around 9am would it be considered Ok to dive on Sunday morning. This would normally be my Long Run days so could be running up to an hour.

2 : After the Sunday dive when could I safely go running again ? I would be running anywhere between 30 and 50 minutes depending on the session.

3 : Does anyone else here have an active, at least 4 times a week, training/exercise plan. How does it affect your diving ?

4 : When the Tuesday session start I presume that I will have to choose between Diving or Running as it would be impossible to manage both.


I have read the follwing DAN article but all it did was to confuse me further as to what is truly recommended as being "safe".

Physical Exercise Before, During & After a Dive

I would appreciate feedback, especially from anyone who exercises regulary or anyone that fully understands the DAN recomendations..

Cheers Roy

 

[Rechno]

So the article states that several studies showed that exercise before a dive is benefitial to bubble formation and at least one study hinted that even directly after a dive exercise might be beneficial.

The overall recommendation based on these findings is stated and the former 24hrs guideline is significantly reduced.

Personally I do my training sessions the day before a dive or sometimes in the morning if the dive is in the late afternoon. After a dive for the rest of the day I dont do any other sports and start again on the next morning.

 

[Zef]

So here is my stab at answering your query:

It depends....there are lots of variables that interplay, such as your current fitness level, your physiology/metabolism/ratio of lean mass to fat, etc. But here are some general things to consider:

Exercise prior to diving should not pose to much of a risk. Try to give yourself at about 2 hours between the completion of your workout and the start of your dive.

Exercise after your dive can be considered more problematic from a risk standpoint and one way you can manage this is to look at your dive computer's no-fly indication, when that clears/reaches zero you could probably consider yourself safe to exercise again as well.

The issue you will have following the above as a guideline is diving in the evening may force you to push a workout planned for the next day further into the day depending on what time your dive ends. But if you are diving shallow for a short time span you might not worry about waiting for the no-fly counter to lapse completely depending on your personal risk/benefit assessment.

There are also computers that along with no-fly time give a graphical representation of tissue compartment saturation (Mares Icon HD for example)....this feature may be a handy tool in calculating more precisely when you can begin diving.

Disclaimer:
My education background is in Athletic Training/Sports Therapy, I am not a doctor, and have only read the same DAN article you linked to along with some other articles over the years, so I am by no means an expert on DCI/DCS what causes it and how best to avoid it. But from my understanding, there is not yet enough research/information to provide you with a definitive answer to your questions.

Specifically addressing your questions:
1 : If I run on a Saturday morning around 9am would it be considered Ok to dive on Sunday morning. This would normally be my Long Run days so could be running up to an hour.

1A: I don't think there is any risk based on my reading/research and understanding to run on Saturday and dive on Sunday.

2 : After the Sunday dive when could I safely go running again ? I would be running anywhere between 30 and 50 minutes depending on the session.

2A: As a general recommendation you should be safe when your computer's no-fly countdown reaches zero.

3 : Does anyone else here have an active, at least 4 times a week, training/exercise plan. How does it affect your diving ?

3A: When I was running/cycling on a regular basis I followed the guidelines I put forth above and have not had any problems

4 : When the Tuesday session start I presume that I will have to choose between Diving or Running as it would be impossible to manage both.

4A: You will only need to choose between running and diving on Tuesdays if your schedule or time management ability prevent you from getting your run complete before you dive on Tuesday evenings.

-Z

 

[Roy_W]

So the article states that several studies showed that exercise before a dive is benefitial to bubble formation and at least one study hinted that even directly after a dive exercise might be beneficial.

The overall recommendation based on these findings is stated and the former 24hrs guideline is significantly reduced.

Personally I do my training sessions the day before a dive or sometimes in the morning if the dive is in the late afternoon. After a dive for the rest of the day I dont do any other sports and start again on the next morning.

Thanks Rechno,

I can presume from you answer that you have never had any side effects . I will plan my runs arounds the minimum of 6 hours before a dive and like you not run on the same day after a dive.

I would presume also that anyone doing a week long trip, diving at least once a day, will not exercice at all during the week. ( On liveaboards it stand to reason due to the number of dives per day.)

Cheers Roy

 

[Roy_W]

Thanks Zef,

Between yours and Rechno's replies I believe that I should therefore be OK, I can easilly plan my schedule within those constraints.

I also hope that my increased form will help lower my SAC rate. I was pretty much out of form and overweight last year.... Even after only a couple of months of running I can definately feel the difference.

 

[Scraps]

When you say you're training for a 10K, what does that mean? Are you training to be able to finish a 10K without stopping, or are you training to break a certain time threshold, place in your age group, or win the thing?

If you're running 30-50 minutes at a time trying to build your endurance to finish a 10K, and not doing serious interval or hill training, it's hard to imagine your workouts exceeding the preferred level of "moderate aerobic exercise that does not involve heavy straining of the muscles" and that doesn't "involve rapid movement (high cadence) of the limbs."

I lift weights 4x/week and often add a half hour of aerobic work to the end of my workouts. Friday is usually deadlift day for me, and deadlift puts the heaviest strain on the most muscles. My lifting usually goes in a 4-week cycle with week three being the week in which I lift the heaviest single reps, and week four being my "de-load" week, when I lift the lightest amounts and work on cues and form. I am completely spent after a week-three workout (by completely spent I mean that any 98-pound weakling could knock me over when I walk out of the gym). On the contrary, I feel like I've hardly worked at all after a week-four workout even though I spent a fair amount of time in the gym and on the elliptical.

I have noticed a couple times after a Saturday dive after an intense week-three deadlift day, that I just didn't feel good after my dive. No articulable symptoms--just didn't feel good. I've never noticed that feeling the day after a de-load lifting session.

I felt the same way one day during divemaster training when we began with the timed 400 yard swim and the 100 yard tired diver tow--and then did a couple training dives. The combined times of the two timed swims was less than ten minutes, but the intensity and proximity to the dives may have had an effect. I just didn't feel very good that night--nothing I could put my finger on, just felt blah. This particular Saturday dive occurred the day after a week-one lift, which is moderate reps at no more than 75% of my 1 rep max.

So what I think I'm saying as someone with absolutely no medical credentials is that you should pay attention to how much overall strain you're putting on your system when you consider how to apply the guidelines in the DAN article. A half hour run a day before a dive at a pace where you could carry on a conversation while running seems moderate and safe, especially if your body is accustomed to performing that run. The longer or more intense the run, the more I'd think about putting additional time between the run and the dive.

Listen to your body . . . your race, your pace.


Best wishes,

 

[Roy_W]

Hi Scraps,

As a 53 year old, 90Kg ex smoker..... my main intention is just to run the 10K, I would already be happy with that.. but I would like to do a bit better than just getting to the end....

I am currently in the process of finishing a 11week couch to 5k and my 5K time is around 28mins.

According to my current stats, I should be able to do a 10k in around 1h 3mins. For this I will be starting my 13 week plan in the beginning of February. I will be using a beginner/intermidiate plan which includes a fair bit of Interval training, progressively leading to hill sprints and many runs overs the 10K mark ( albeit at an easy pace) .


I will avoid doing the Long Runs on Saturdays though. I can easilly modify my schedule so at least I am not stuck to doing the long runs on the weekend.

 

[Scraps]

Roy-W,

With that information, it sounds like your Saturday running and Sunday diving are compatible.

Your age, weight and former smoking habit are all reasons to check with a physician before ramping up your physical activity too much.

Assuming that you've already done that, at present, your 28-minute 5K is safely in the "moderate" exercise category described by the article--as long as you feel okay when you finish and you return to a normal pulse and respiration rate fairly quickly afterward.

Even when you move up to the longer distances, it should still be considered moderate exercise because your runs over 10K will be what are called LSD runs (long, slow distance), where you set your pace as slow as necessary to keep your heart rate down. That means no intense effort and no rapid or high-tempo limb movements.

Most training plans for runners include a recovery run each week, which are light, easy and short. If you do your long, non-intense runs on Saturday, you could do your recovery runs later in the day on Sunday or on Monday.

Once you start doing harder training (intervals and hills), however, you might want to put them in the middle of the week.

Seems pretty manageable to blend your running and diving.

Best wishes,

 

[kensuf]

Diving days for our club ar Sunday morning, dive begins around 10am and Tuesday evenings around 18:30. ( The Tuesday session won't start until around the end of May).

If I train for a 10k race, I would to start a new plan soon ( start of february) and I would be training 4 or 5 day per week and this is where my dilemma begin.

1 : If I run on a Saturday morning around 9am would it be considered Ok to dive on Sunday morning. This would normally be my Long Run days so could be running up to an hour.

2 : After the Sunday dive when could I safely go running again ? I would be running anywhere between 30 and 50 minutes depending on the session.

3 : Does anyone else here have an active, at least 4 times a week, training/exercise plan. How does it affect your diving ?

4 : When the Tuesday session start I presume that I will have to choose between Diving or Running as it would be impossible to manage both.


I have read the follwing DAN article but all it did was to confuse me further as to what is truly recommended as being "safe".

Physical Exercise Before, During & After a Dive

I would appreciate feedback, especially from anyone who exercises regulary or anyone that fully understands the DAN recomendations..

Cheers Roy

Hi Roy,

Congrats on your decision to run a 10k. Back when I regularly ran and raced, 10k's were one of my favorite distances. Long enough that it was more than a sprint, but not too long that it was closer to a marathon. Due to injuries I've switched to cycling as my primary cardio routine, but still have some thoughts on your questions based on years of diving and exercising.

1. YES - absolutely not a problem with exercising 24 hours before a dive.

2. It depends on the dive depths / durations and exertion levels. I've personally found that MODERATE (i.e. "easy") exercise 3-4 hours after recreational diving isn't a problem for me, I've been known to go out for a quick bike ride or easy jog after a day of teaching scuba.

3. I try to have 4 or 5 workouts a week, but last year life got in the way (we have an ill family member). Prior to this past year I typically worked out 4 or 5 days a week and dove 3 days a week. My diving is almost all cave diving (doubles, scooters, stage bottles, 30-50m deep, decompression). On days that I had hard workouts, I wouldn't dive, but could easily dive the day after a hard workout.

4. My normal diving schedule is W/Sa/Su and my normal workout schedule is M/T/Th/Fr with possibly a weekend. Historically, Tuesday and Thursday are intensity workouts.

Ken

 

[Roy_W]

"Your age, weight and former smoking habit are all reasons to check with a physician before ramping up your physical activity too much."

Last year in October after doing my medical for my Yearly Dive Licence, the doc spotted a slight anomaly and sent me to the Heart Surgeon... Yikes, got me a little worried..

Anyway to cut a long story short the Heart Surgeon gave me thorough check up, I wore a heart rate monitor for 24 hours and thank god he cleared me for everything. ( He is also a diver and easilly understoods the constraints) . He was actually the one that advised me to do some cardio, mostly for the weight and also the fact that I was too sedentary, like most IT Engineers I am sat down almost all day.

Yes agreed, my runs are mostly LSD ( I love that phrase, never heard it before), there's some moment when we almost feel high...
¨

"Once you start doing harder training (intervals and hills), however, you might want to put them in the middle of the week".

The country side , trails, start only 50m from home which means it's easy for me to change my schedule, and there is a 400m track only 8 minutes away by foot .

I just wish the Diving schedule was easier to arrange. ;-) I want/have to complete my CMAS level 3 before venturing outside of the club... Level 2 doesn't oblige me to cover any of the medical or technical skills that I would like to have whereas level 3 does. On top of that being in better health will also be a positive.