Taking an open water student below 60 ft?

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No, if a diver goes to 61, then 62, then ... etc (but not past 100) they are going to learn more they will on the deep dive as part of AOW (seriously, look at color absorption? Compare dive computer depth readings? How the F do those make a diver safer at 100 feet?).

I don’t completely disagree with what you say but I was referring to the initial question that was referring to an instructor. Instructors acting as such must follow agency standards.
 
I don’t completely disagree with what you say but I was referring to the initial question that was referring to an instructor. Instructors acting as such must follow agency standards.

When teaching, an instructor must abide by standards. Outside of teaching, it isn't any agencies business. However, for liability reasons, I won't dive with anyone past their certification limits with the exception of old timers who have been at it for decades.
 
When teaching, an instructor must abide by standards. Outside of teaching, it isn't any agencies business. However, for liability reasons, I won't dive with anyone past their certification limits with the exception of old timers who have been at it for decades.

Yup I agree.

What I find odd is the people mentioning dive ops bringing divers past their certifications limits. I’m guessing this could mean trouble for them..
 
Yup I agree.

What I find odd is the people mentioning dive ops bringing divers past their certifications limits. I’m guessing this could mean trouble for them..

There is training and experience. Both of which are vague (former due to the wide variety in quality of training for the same certification).

It all depends on the plaintiff's lawyer and the country in which the lawsuit is filed. I just err on the side of caution/paranoia. :surrender:
 
Don’t know the answer to the specific question, but the second time I took the open water class, the instructor offered to take us deeper to an interesting part of the dive site. However, he was careful to specify that he would signal when we had completed the the course requirements and we would do the deep portion as certified divers, not as students.

that made the dive not part of the course and out of the standards issue, unless the training dive dies not end with out first surfacing and completing course admin.. That is what I have normally seen with PADI instructors that take their students to sea for dives.
 
that made the dive not part of the course and out of the standards issue.
Not sure if that would hold up in court. But again, I'm paranoid. Working under Andy Grove will do that to you.
 
Yup I agree.

What I find odd is the people mentioning dive ops bringing divers past their certifications limits. I’m guessing this could mean trouble for them..
A topic that is very contentious. I believe int he 60 ft limit because OW only teaches shallow skills. AOW is supposed to teach you the deeper skills.
 
Not sure if that would hold up in court. But again, I'm paranoid. Working under Andy Grove will do that to you.
Ive seen it a lot. Your concern is valid. and very caution worthy. May be very dependant upon agency also. There is little consistancy in training also. When My wife took the OW class I asked how deep class dives was and they said PADI standards prohibited training dives below 40 ft. When Asked about AOW training dives they said they only go to 60+ feet (62 will do) for the cert. As a non instuctor you dont know what the truth is. My wife had problems with her mask clearing. so the instructor did it at 4 ft holding her to the down line. cited that as long as it got done with out surfacing it met standards and was a valid pass. She got her card and that was it. We started over in another lake until I was happy with her ease at skills at depth . Another instructor. had a class hat was both OW AND AOW. SAME STUDENTS same time. Probably not Kosher either but it happens what bothered me was that these guys had no more than a dozen dives as part of the training class and they were allowed to go to 90 ft on their second or third ocean dive. I dont know that just bothers me it is like giving a kid his first drivers license and then say have a good time with the 18 wheeler or the farrarri.
 
Ive seen it a lot. Your concern is valid. and very caution worthy. May be very dependant upon agency also. There is little consistancy in training also. When My wife took the OW class I asked how deep class dives was and they said PADI standards prohibited training dives below 40 ft. When Asked about AOW training dives they said they only go to 60+ feet (62 will do) for the cert. As a non instuctor you dont know what the truth is. My wife had problems with her mask clearing. so the instructor did it at 4 ft holding her to the down line. cited that as long as it got done with out surfacing it met standards and was a valid pass. She got her card and that was it. We started over in another lake until I was happy with her ease at skills at depth . Another instructor. had a class hat was both OW AND AOW. SAME STUDENTS same time. Probably not Kosher either but it happens what bothered me was that these guys had no more than a dozen dives as part of the training class and they were allowed to go to 90 ft on their second or third ocean dive. I dont know that just bothers me it is like giving a kid his first drivers license and then say have a good time with the 18 wheeler or the farrarri.

It sounds like your wife was trained by clowns. Now I started out as a PADI instructor 4 years ago, and I've seen older PADI instructor manuals, and I never saw anything say that 40 feet was the max depth for open water diver. Scuba diver, yes.

I cringe at the thought of taking people to 61 feet (within standards) for the deep dive in an AOW course. My opinion (worth just as much as you paid for it) is that doing so is a huge disservice. While the performance requirements are non existent (looking at colors fading - which many instructors skip and comparing depth values on dive computers - which also many instructors skip are not skills). But hopefully people learn that going to 100 feet isn't scary, and that they learn something (though I won't hold my breath) about narcosis. I certainly will not hold my breath that the instructor will teach about gas density and why going beyond 100 feet on air exceeds the recommended gas density by Dr. Simon Mitchell (which caused me to stop teaching diving beyond 100 feet until I become a heliotrox instructor).

Now my memory may be off, so any current PADI instructors please correct me, but it is within standards to mix open water and other specialties, just not a deep dive (i.e., you need to maintain standards). I think doing so is a disservice as students don't learn anything while the instructor is busy with the students taking con ed courses. I'm personally against max ratios as students spend a lot of time waiting their turn. I teach in cold water, so managing students's comfort as well as gas supply are concerns. I just want to ensure that my students improve significantly with the courses I teach. While many instructors hold this view, not all of them do.
 
Now I started out as a PADI instructor 4 years ago, and I've seen older PADI instructor manuals, and I never saw anything say that 40 feet was the max depth for open water diver.
As has been stated several times in this thread, 40 ft is the max training limit for OW dive 1 and 2, 60 ft for dives 3 and 4.
Not sure why it has to be said over and over.
 
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