Fire on safari boat Suzana in Egypt (Red Sea Aggressor)

[Mike Walker]

It is not hard to install a master switch to camera table/charging station.

You don't need to - they're already there in the form of circuit breakers. My point is that you're not fixing anything by doing so.

The odds of any of these happening:
1) Battery explodes from charging
2) Battery explodes from accidental dead short in storage
3) Battery explodes from mechanical damage or manufacturing defect
4) Battery explodes from someone looking at it wrong
Are all extremely low and probably not that different from each other. They happen very, very rarely and the result is the same.
Eliminating scenario 1 only to get to scenario 2 or 3 isn't really gaining anything.

Any holistic 'solution' should accept that while these problems do happen and the results can be catastrophic on a boat - the actual occurrences are extremely rare. Therefore, rather than trying to jump from say a 1:250,000 to a 1:1,000,000 probability (a very tiny 4x gain) - or, the similarly ridiculous 'build a completely fire proof boat' - I would suggest a more balanced solution is to make the area where batteries are stored/charged etc. non-combustible for the energy levels involved.

Similarly, we are seeing several boats are having trouble getting a simple night watch by a professional crew to work at all (something that is legally required and well established as best practice). Do you really think rules and signatures will make sure things are switched off each night and no one turns them back on? Reliably, day after day, trip after trip? Culturally that might have some chance of working in Germany/Switzerland/etc. (y'all love your rules) but I think it's safe to say that with an international crowd compliance will not last long. Why fight a losing battle with human nature when the problem can be better addressed at its root?

(I'd imagine similar thoughts are put into designing galleys and engine rooms. It would be absurd to tell the chef they can only use a microwave and boiling water to cook because cooking oil might ignite. Rather, we build the galley out of metal so that in the rare case it does happen the damage is contained. I suspect kitchen fires are far more common than battery fires.)

 

[NothingClever]

Such psychology may be a bit of a problem for the lob companies as well. While on the one hand they want to reassure their guests, on the other hand that very reassurance may remind guests that perhaps they would rather vacation ashore.

I think one way LOB companies could be successful in reassuring and/or keeping customers is by providing a high quality safety brief and then for the crew to lead the passengers in a rehearsal at some point early in the LOB.

Even with a tame walk through of procedures, the skipper and crew will get indications of who’s likely to solve problems and who’s likely to contribute to problems (through negligence, lethargy or simple incompetence).

Conversely, passengers who are safety minded may learn the same about the crew members.

Safety briefs and emergency procedure rehearsals are just good seamanship and customer service, features that can’t be assumed it seems anymore.

 

[John Bantin]

You may be interested in a free-to-read article just posted on www.undercurrent.org It was written before news of the Red Sea Aggressor fire but could be useful to anyone about to go on a liveaboard trip.

 

[scubadada]

I think @John Bantin meant to post Undercurrent, Consumer Reporting for Serious Divers Since 1975

Edit: sorry, I see John corrected the link

 

[DrMack]

I do not know the business arrangements between Aggressor Fleet and the vessel owners.

Here is a link to the Aggressor "license" pitch: Adventure Vacations | Aggressor® Liveaboards, Safaris & River Cruises

 

[scubaozy]

Any holistic 'solution' should accept that while these problems do happen and the results can be catastrophic on a boat - the actual occurrences are extremely rare. Therefore, rather than trying to jump from say a 1:250,000 to a 1:1,000,000 probability (a very tiny 4x gain) - or, the similarly ridiculous 'build a completely fire proof boat' - I would suggest a more balanced solution is to make the area where batteries are stored/charged etc. non-combustible for the energy levels involved.

I understand your point but frequency is also quite high, and will get higher with higher capacity batteries pulling more amps..
18 divers charging easily 5 times (phone, tablet camera...) per day that is 90 charges daily. 250 000:90:365= 7.6 years. Off course this is not how probability works but it is an interesting perspective. Risk is normally calculated R= Probability x Impact, so if the impact is high enough, in this case a probable death, risk may not be as small as you think.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Here is a link to the Aggressor "license" pitch: Adventure Vacations | Aggressor® Liveaboards, Safaris & River Cruises

It does indeed refer to the boat operator as a "licensee."

In many instances, a licensor doesn't have the authority to control how their licensees manage the details of their operations. It's not like a franchise.

 

[Wookie]

Here is a link to the Aggressor "license" pitch: Adventure Vacations | Aggressor® Liveaboards, Safaris & River Cruises

Well, there ya go. The first bullet is all about their Extensive Standard Operating Procedures.

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

There have always been fires. One of the sites we dived from the Red Sea Aggressor was the remains of a dive boat that had burned.

I've been there recently: that's between Abu Dabab 2 and 3 (aka Abu Dabbab). Nice but spooky...

 

[Mike Walker]

I understand your point but frequency is also quite high, and will get higher with higher capacity batteries pulling more amps..
18 divers charging easily 5 times (phone, tablet camera...) per day that is 90 charges daily. 250 000:90:365= 7.6 years. Off course this is not how probability works but it is an interesting perspective. Risk is normally calculated R= Probability x Impact, so if the impact is high enough, in this case a probable death, risk may not be as small as you think.

But, by simply making the charging area robust enough to withstand any likely battery failure the impact approaches 0 and thus so does the risk. That's the core of what I'm getting at - a simple, low cost, low maintenance solution that allows batteries to blow up with minimal risk to the adjacent humans. If the charging cubbies are non-combustible and adequately contain any debris until it cools down you could blow up several batteries per day just for fun and still not risk the boat (who doesn't love toxic smoke and loud noises on dive trips...).

I'd be very interested to see a test with 4 to 8 batteries of 18650 size inside even a 1/16" (2mm) thick 16" (40cm) per side aluminum box. Five closed sides and weighted welding blanket over the front. Short one and see what happens. My money would be on adequate containment. Try the same thing with 3/4" fire retardant plywood (this is used widely in building electrical rooms). If that's all it takes there is very little excuse not to immediately start seeing some changes on boats.

Proper battery and charge management is absolutely something the dive industry needs to address - but the solutions need to be driven by data and pragmatism rather than fear and assumptions. Explosions are only bad when inadequately contained - see: the boat engine. It might be quite a bit easier to build a better box than to manage the technology and humans on the other end.

I suspect actual draw is going down with device efficiency almost as fast as quantity of devices is going up. Similarly, chargers are getting smarter and safer - even most of the ones without proper regulatory listings still manage current and temperature pretty effectively. Thanks to the flashlight fanatics over at Candlepowerforums any charger/battery known for starting fires gets bad online reputation pretty quick. Battery technology is improving continuously and I suspect this problem will extinguish itself in 5 to 10 years (pun absolutely intended...).