Why give primary instead of alternate regulator?

[FF / EMT]

I'm assuming that your answer to both questions is the same, right?

Assume away.
My primary is a ffm, it's foolish to take that off and donate it, then you have two panicked divers.
My secondary is not a ffm

 

[aldertyler]

FFM may be outside of the scope of this discussion.

 

[doctormike]

FFM may be outside of the scope of this discussion.

Yup. Just to clarify, if you are a commercial hard hat diver, this thread may also not be applicable to your specific situation.

 

[doctormike]

Those who threaten violence in return for minor, perceived slights have likely never been required to commit real violence, whether as occupation or in response to actual threat to life.

This ^

 

[happy-diver]

We were all diving over here, a bunch of boys and girls on a big trip a few years back
the Guy that left his regs at home did the entire dive stealing air from every one else


normal jackets and regs had a ball, so what else would you be doing at such a locale

 

[pauldw]

IOW, you're threatening violence with a lethal weapon.

IOW? No, the original words are clear enough without being rewritten by someone who didn't grasp them. But, I guess one more try would be polite. Of course, since you're apparently into making excuses for muggers who threaten people's lives, I'm guessing this'll be futile.

I'm observing that people who try to kill other people should assume there may be some self defense coming. If someone tries to strangle someone else, a response is a real good idea. If someone tries to suffocate someone else, a response is a real good idea. And if someone does the same thing by mugging them for their air supply underwater, a response is a real good idea. The underwater mugger's intent may not be the same, but the outcome for the victim may well not be any different so there still needs to be a response that preserves the victim's life before that of the mugger. I'm going to make this as simple as possible for you: for rec divers configured with an octopus (who are likely out on their annual vacation dive), you don't take their primary suddenly and unexpectedly and without permission. If you do, you're threatening their life, and should expect a response. The other way, you aren't (you don't need permission to take the bright yellow octopus attached to the bright yellow hose).

I believe I understand why you're diving solo.

You must have been so proud of yourself when you came up with that! Clever boy! So not at all predictable.

 

[doctormike]

The underwater mugger's intent may not be the same, but the outcome for the victim may well not be any different so there still needs to be a response that preserves the victim's life before that of the mugger. .

Or - just spitballing here - you could practice scuba diving enough so that you could calmly deploy your backup second stage and save both lives.

If someone is truly OOG and seconds away from drowning, they probably will go for your gas in whatever way that occurs to them at the moment. Even if you are brandishing your underwater bazooka and are ready and willing to kill someone, rather than handling the situation like an experienced diver.

 

[pauldw]

Or - just spitballing here - you could practice scuba diving enough so that you could calmly deploy your backup second stage and save both lives.

If someone is truly OOG and seconds away from drowning, they probably will go for your gas in whatever way that occurs to them at the moment. Even if you are brandishing your underwater bazooka and are ready and willing to kill someone, rather than handling the situation like an experienced diver.

Most divers aren't super manly GUE types, of rock steady nerves and whatever else. I'm guessing you know that. Primary DONATE may be fine for the mighty aquamen of valor. It might even be the best thing to teach, IF every agency does it and there's a publicity campaign about it to alert some older divers. But that's not the case presently. And for those who say the agencies now consider it an option, go to their web sites and look at the photos: yellow, yellow, yellow. Primary TAKE for normal divers isn't a good idea. In real life, it's just an immediate guarantee of two people panicking. Buddy breathing went away for a reason, and mugging people for their primary isn't a safer practice.

How are you gonna teach Joe Blow and Jane Doe not to panic? I am actually curious about that. It doesn't seem much of a part of OW, at least in any way that lasts.

 

[happy-diver]

And some more gold from our mate J.C.

"Years ago, when I was crewing on the Seeker, I had the opportunity to dive with some really skilled and talented wreck divers. Much of what I now know, I learned from them. On the other hand, I would occasionally come across divers like Ed, who was an extremely Accomplished Bad Diver. For the entire time I knew Ed, he appeared to be an excellent emergency manager who in no way understood the concept of prevention?"


Accomplished Bad Divers


I'm sure I'm falling in love

You go go go Zack-Bloom

 

[doctormike]

Most divers aren't super manly GUE types, of rock steady nerves and whatever else. I'm guessing you know that. Primary DONATE may be fine for the mighty aquamen of valor. It might even be the best thing to teach, IF every agency does it and there's a publicity campaign about it to alert some older divers. But that's not the case presently. And for those who say the agencies now consider it an option, go to their web sites and look at the photos: yellow, yellow, yellow. Primary TAKE for normal divers isn't a good idea. In real life, it's just an immediate guarantee of two people panicking. Buddy breathing went away for a reason, and mugging people for their primary isn't a safer practice.

How are you gonna teach Joe Blow and Jane Doe not to panic? I am actually curious about that. It doesn't seem much of a part of OW, at least in any way that lasts.

Not sure what you are talking about.

I'm saying that primary donate is the best thing to train with, for the myriad reasons mentioned upthread. You may disagree, you may feel that secondary donate is better, that's fine, that's why we are here. Feel free to make your case.

But "mugging" isn't something that ANYONE trains to do. Communication is always best. The difference between primary donate and "primary take" is communication, and I don't think that any agency recommends the surprise taking of someone else's gas as a standard contingency practice

In the unforseen situation where a panicked diver who is two seconds from drowning grabs your primary - which they might well do despite any and all training or pre-dive discussion - it's probably better for you to just switch to your backup than for you to murder him with your dive knife.

Not sure why that's a controversial statement.