face-up underwater without a mask

[malipython]

Dear Members!

I heard that it is taught during scuba diving courses how to equalize air pressure in the nose when it is not protected underwater while a person is in a face-up position.

I know that for a lot of people, closing the soft palate + pressing with the diaphragm + pressing the end of the tounge to the area behind the upper front teeth generates enough pressure in the nasal cavity and sinuses so that water doesn't go into them in any position, including being face-up.

But what about the people who have to find balance by exhalation with opened soft palate? I mean, pushing just enough air to avoid water going up the nose, but without releasing a bubble.

I have been trying and trying and trying for half a year now. I also had a septum deviance and nasal polyps surgery just because of this ability... I still couldn't find balance. Ohh sorry, I found it once, after 2 weeks of practice and never again after that. And I remember when I succeeded, I didn't even pay attention, it came kind of automatically...

2 things bother me about this... The first one is that doctors told me that this should be a natural reflex, which means it is not that dependent on human will (example above, that I succeeded when I didn't give a crap)
The second one is, that everyone who found balance once in their lives, could control it from that time and improved, but not me...

What is wrong with me, seriously? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[malipython]

It is kind of dissappointing to see no one replies to this topic despite the number of views... I bet most of you are experienced enough in this and have a detailed anatomy knowledge so that you could tell me some tips...

 

[Snoweman]

It is kind of dissappointing to see no one replies to this topic despite the number of views... I bet most of you are experienced enough in this and have a detailed anatomy knowledge so that you could tell me some tips...

One problem is that this question is in the wrong forum. It needs to be moved to one of the scuba forums.

I was never made to equalize without a mask. They do make you take off your mask and put it back on, along with just flooding the mask and clearing it. I think the assumption is that you will try to take care of this problem before descending any further. If you can't take care of the problem, then you will be ascending (which is easier to equalize). If my reg is still in my mouth, I would probably pinch my nose and breath normally during the ascent. If not, I will be blowing bubbles during ascent to make sure I don't get an embolism. I hope this answers your question.

 

[aviator8]

Ditto what @Snoweman says. You will have to remove and replace your mask. Usually this is in a neutrally buoyant position so you shouldn't have to equalize. You will need to breath underwater for a min I think with no mask. If you have to equalize while doing so pinch your nose. If you take off your mask and invert your head you are going to get water in your nose if you are not pinching your nose or exhaling through it. I Have never heard of any requirement to equalized without a mask with your head facing the surface. Can you cite your source of that information?

 

[malipython]

I'm terribly sorry, I think my post was misunderstandable. My question is not related to scuba-diving, I just heard many times that it is taught during scuba-diving courses.

If you take off your mask and invert your head you are going to get water in your nose if you are not pinching your nose or exhaling through it

No. And this is what my question is really about. I know a lot of people in my life who don't get water up their noses in that position and they don't pinch their noses, neither do they exhale... They don't know how they do it and they usually reply to me with "of course I don't get water up my nose because I don't inhale it" ...
So this is the question. HOW to do what they can do? They can't tell me as they say it comes as a natural reflex...

 

[Damselfish]

It is kind of dissappointing to see no one replies to this topic despite the number of views... I bet most of you are experienced enough in this and have a detailed anatomy knowledge so that you could tell me some tips...

No one replies because it’s actually not something taught in scuba and people don’t know what you’re talking about. They may have seen it but they said “huh?” and moved on.

 

[Bubblesong]

I have done it but the only way i can explain it is my tiny, girly nostrils, which have more air/water surface tension than most man nostrils.
Second, is when my mask is off, i “almost exhale” as if i am putting slightest positive outward pressure on my nose air to counter inward pressure of water, but not enough pressure to exhale air.
Until someone invents comfy nostril one way vents like what’s on the bottom of my snorkel, that all I got.

 

[malipython]

Bubblesong, thank you for your reply. My question is that have you ever knowingly practiced to be able to regulate the air in your nose so evenly and punctually even at that slightest pressure? Or you've had this ability since you can remember and it works as a reflex? How did you exactly develop this skill? I have been practicing pressurizing air in my nose to keep water out without releasing a bubble for 8 months. I never succeeded to do it...

 

[Bubblesong]

I did practice starting as a little kid while swimming.
You mention the face up position as a problem. Can you do this “air pressure in nose” in face down position?

 

[malipython]

Thank you for your reply

Yes indeed, face down the air acts like a plug in my nose, if water wants to come further in my nose as I go deeper, I can press it out without blowing a bubble.
Face-up it is completely different. If feels like "it leaks", I can't describe it better. For example, no matter what air pressure I try to apply, water slips onto my throat instantly through my nose. Like instantly (I DON'T inhale! I always make outward pressure and still). As if the air couldn't be able to act as a plug in my nose. If I try to press a little harder, little bubbles leave my nose and water slips onto my throat at the same time. Whatever pressure I use the same happens all the time. The only way I can avoid water rushing my nose face-up is to blow a strong bubble stream.
I also tried the method to deliberately snort a little bit of water to the entrance of my nasal passages so that it creates a seal I can hold with a certain pressure, but what happens there too is that water starts coming into my nose further. If I increase the pressure little bubbles go through the water in my nose and water comes even futher into my nose at the same time. If I apply a pressure that doesn't create bubbles, water comes further in my nose. Same happens here, it only doesn't come further if I blow it out with a strong bubble stream. It feels like there is a hole in the air in my nose where water can leak in.
I'd like to ask you, do you experience a difference in how air acts in your nose face-up and face-down?