Primary or alternate donate poll

[MichaelMc]

I highly recommend everyone do an unexpected OOA drill. To understand how you and your buddy handle it. Even doing so on a regular basis.

Not the massively staged class version: 'Are you ready for me to go OOA? All set? Ok, here I go. Oh no, I'm OOA!!!"

But the: tell your buddy (and guide, if you have one) "At some point during the dive I will go OOA". Then at some point suddenly decide you are OOA, find your buddy, signal OOA, see how it all unfolds, including a small bit of (deliberate) ascent. Reverse the roles on the next dive.

If it's a guided dive, you should work around when the guide might prefer this to occur. Maybe even ask the guide at some time to point a finger pistol at one of you and 'shoot' you without the other seeing it. That is an even better version than the OOA diver getting themselves all ready for the drill.

If you only get insta-buddies, tell them you're really concerned about that you both have good procedures and you will go OOA. After it is done is when you indicate it was just a drill.

I dive with good divers, it has still been enlightening doing this.

If it does not go well..., adjust.

 

[loosenit2]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the benefits though of primary donate and why the lopsidedness.

Another benefit is cleaner hose routing. like @Doby45 for rec diving I use a short hose (44") routed under arm and up to mouth for my primary (use a 90 deg elbow for comfort); and a 22" bungeed second. That keeps all my hose routing very tight and compact; no chance of a dangling octo and no hoses routing along the outside of my body so less entanglement hazard.

Does this add a step to donating? Yes it does, but it is a relatively easy step.

It also simplifies you changing to your second as well. Imagine you have a problem with your primary and have to switch to a second for your use, you simply spit it out and your second is right there on your neck, no reaching on your BCD and bringing it up, or searching for it if it became disconnected and is floating; which as I think about it is an advantage that not many have brought up. Octo's are often not in the triangle they are supposed to be in because they come lose or are dangling, not true when your second is on a bungee on your neck.

Another benefit to using a BP/W and primary donate is you just look cool. Was diving last month in the Turks and Caicos; big cattle boat operation and the DMs were like "you look like a Navy Seal" LOL.

 

[formernuke]

I highly recommend everyone do an unexpected OOA drill. To understand how you and your buddy handle it. Even doing so on a regular basis.

Not the massively staged class version: 'Are you ready for me to go OOA? All set? Ok, here I go. Oh no, I'm OOA!!!"

But the: tell your buddy (and guide, if you have one) "At some point during the dive I will go OOA". Then at some point suddenly decide you are OOA, find your buddy, signal OOA, see how it all unfolds, including a small bit of (deliberate) ascent. Also do the "At some point you will go OOA".

If it's a guided dive, you should work around when the guide might prefer this to occur. Maybe even ask the guide at some time to point a finger pistol at one of you and 'shoot' you without the other seeing it. That is an even better version than the OOA diver getting themselves all ready for the drill.

If you only get insta-buddies, tell them you're really concerned about that you both have good procedures and you will go OOA. After it is done is when you indicate it was just a drill.

I dive with good divers, it has still be enlightening doing this. If it does not go well..., adjust.

Definitely make sure to tell the guide first. I got bored doing a safety stop one boat dive so I decided to do drills, the divemaster about **** himself when he looked at me and I had my mask off, when we got back to boat he told me he figured it out when as soon the mask was back on I handed my primary to an imaginary person and switched to my secondary and then switched back....... but next time tell him FIRST

 

[CT-Rich]

I have an Air2, so it is primary donate. The 3:1 ratio is probably partly a function of this being the advanced category, which skews tech/ long hose. On a cattle boat it would probably be 35% secondary, 15% primary, 50% what?

 

[Esprise Me]

I'll second what others have said that on any given day boat where I live, the ratios are (at least) reversed, and the majority of the minority who would donate a primary have an Air2 rather than a long hose. I'm not out there preaching the gospel of DIR (I actually kinda cringe at what that acronym stands for) but I'm always happy to talk about what I do and why to anyone who asks, and I've persuaded at least one friend so far (he brought it up!)

 

[-JD-]

I highly recommend everyone do an unexpected OOA drill. To understand how you and your buddy handle it. Even doing so on a regular basis.

Not the massively staged class version: 'Are you ready for me to go OOA? All set? Ok, here I go. Oh no, I'm OOA!!!"

But the: tell your buddy (and guide, if you have one) "At some point during the dive I will go OOA". Then at some point suddenly decide you are OOA, find your buddy, signal OOA, see how it all unfolds, including a small bit of (deliberate) ascent. Reverse the roles on the next dive.

If it's a guided dive, you should work around when the guide might prefer this to occur. Maybe even ask the guide at some time to point a finger pistol at one of you and 'shoot' you without the other seeing it. That is an even better version than the OOA diver getting themselves all ready for the drill.

If you only get insta-buddies, tell them you're really concerned about that you both have good procedures and you will go OOA. After it is done is when you indicate it was just a drill.

I dive with good divers, it has still be enlightening doing this.

If it does not go well..., adjust.

My instructor loves to do this, typically during AOW classes. Outta nowhere, he is in your face, wide-eyed, no reg, flailing arms! It is fun after the "Oh S***!" the fist time ...

He also teaches the reg that you are donating gets PUT in the other divers mouth and it is being purged (gently if possible) as it is going to them so that they can see it is good and have air at the first inhale.

I played around with the Air2 type rig, but am now running matched second stages with 40" yellow hose, yellow purge cover, primary with 70/110 swivel and a short-hosed breakaway-bungeed secondary around my neck - Obviously primary-donate.

I'm going to explore a longer, 60"ish primary hose for more scope and to reduce jaw-strain.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I tried a 5ft hose on my recreational rig and didn’t like it. The hose routing is a bit funky because it’s too short. I was constantly tugging on it, trying to get slack.

I went back to standard length for recreational. I still use a 7ft for tech, but find it overkill for recreational dives.

 

[Bob DBF]

Primary donate at this point in time.

When I started I dove a double hose, primary donate
After getting a single hose I dove without an alternate, same as other divers, so primary donate.
Later when I added an alternate second, I donated the alternate, as was the custom.
I picked up an Air 2 clone, and went back to primary donate
I tried a number of long hose configurations, and changed to a 40" and bungeed backup, again primary donate.

Considering the number of Air 2 and it's clones that have been sold, I don't see why primary donate should be a new idea, or a supprise to anyone. And I rarely see a diver using one that has a yellow second.

What I learned from this is to tell anyone I buddy up with how to to get air from me in an emergency (a good idea in any event). If it's a stranger, and I don't see them in time to donate, I know from experience what reg they will grab. I don't get upset not having a reg in my mouth for a while, untill I get my alternate.

The poll results are interesting, so far 80 for primary donate (me included), and 27 for Octo donate. I do not believe the results show the superiority of primary donate, but rather the degree of skew towards technical diving of SB.

Or the rampant use of the Air 2, and it's clones. Could be a bit of both. Although I did "tech dives" at one time, we did not use an alternate of any type, but that was long ago.

There is popularity, and what works, or can work, for specific configuration and training. A bungeed backup, or Air 2, does not lend itself to alternate donate. An alternate secured in the triangle could as easily be primary or alternate donate, depending on training. And as @Sh0rtBus reminded me (in a following post), a Full Face Mask does not work well as a primary donate.

BSAC takes a hard line on alternate donate and it works because it is trained relentlessly. Same goes for tech divers and primary donate. The lesson is to know what you and your buddy are going to use, and train.



Bob

 

[seeker242]

Primary donate:
Step 1. Donate Primary
Step 2. Put alternate in mouth

Alternate donate:
Step 1. Donate Alternate

So one huge important step not needed that doesn't remove one's own gas.

It seems a lot of times alternate donate could also be:

Alternate donate:
Step1: Grab alternate to donate, whoops it's not there, go find it flapping in the wind or dragging in the sand, Grab alternate to donate
Step 2. Donate Alternate

With primary, step 1 would never happen. It's not supposed to happen with alternate either, but I see octos flapping around on near every dive!

 

[Neilwood]

I am strictly a rec diver and dive with buddies who are ALL rec divers. We brief secondary donate and that is what should happen.

WRT the "golden triangle", I dive a BP&W with the yellow octo hose bent through the chest D ring. There is ZERO chance that it is not in the correct location or dragging in the sand. Even if I am in perfect trim, the yellow reg is clear and accessible to any diver- one tug on the reg and it is yours.

If anyone grabs my primary reg, no great issue as I know I can deploy the other reg in approx 5 seconds.