Finished Divemaster, Did I just Make a Mistake?

[Wookie]

I thought all guides were DM's (or sometimes an instructor). Am I mistaken?

For example in Cozumel, you're required to have a local with your group. Is she a guide or a dm or both? Does the distinction matter?

Strictly my opinion, a guide is a guide and a DM assists the instructor in classes. When I came through, not that long ago, there were 2 paths, guide and DM. In one path (Guide) you had to be an excellent diver and have mad rescue skillz. The other path you had to assist so many classes and have mad demonstration skillz.

Now, neither has to be met, you just have to have 60 dives.

 

[loosenit2]

Nah, no career-focused instructor ever touches the DM. Worst course for your career: long, difficult, few certifications in the end.

Becoming an instructor is much easier than that. You pay $1k for the IDC, pay $1k for a book you'll never open, pay $1k for the IE, do a magic dance, and shazam! You're a diving god, qualified to teach just about every PADI course, regardless of prior experience!

Why do you think this is a viable approach? At least for PADI you have to had been a DM for 6 months to enroll in IDC. Unless someone is cutting corners or knows a magic trick of some sort. "A PADI Divemaster who has been a certified diver for six months and has logged at least 60 dives may enroll in the PADI Instructor Development Course (IDC). Over the course of about seven days, the IDC prepares you to teach and conduct all PADI core courses."

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Why do you think this is a viable approach? At least for PADI you have to had been a DM for 6 months to enroll in IDC. Unless someone is cutting corners or knows a magic trick of some sort. "A PADI Divemaster who has been a certified diver for six months and has logged at least 60 dives may enroll in the PADI Instructor Development Course (IDC). Over the course of about seven days, the IDC prepares you to teach and conduct all PADI core courses."

Unfortunately not. You only need to have been a certified diver, not necessarily a DM, before enrolling on an IDC.

Also to a previous poster; certifying a certain number of DM's is only required as a prerequisite for Master Instructor.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Personally I love teaching DM's

I wring a lot out of them and demand they complete the skills circuit neutral (max fin tips resting on pool bottom if its shallow)

A DM could certainly earn a little guiding either a group or persons

On courses though (I don't need a CA because I don't teach large groups) But I'm always teaching the DM' lots of little things for sure, but in the same way someone taught me.

If the DM wants to be paid for being an assistant, they first need to pay me for my instruction to them...

 

[rhwestfall]

I thought all guides were DM's (or sometimes an instructor). Am I mistaken?

For example in Cozumel, you're required to have a local with your group. Is she a guide or a dm or both? Does the distinction matter?

A GUIDE imparts/shares local knowledge. That I can use and appreciate. I do not need a DM, or as I call it, "a baby sitter".... I am responsible for my own safety, gear, air, dive plan, etc. I see the two as distinctly different. Dive with me, not for me...

I have watched the ranks grow with people I have no confidence in. This is not to be taken as a broad based statement. There are some damn fine divers working in the industry...

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Unfortunately not. You only need to have been a certified diver, not necessarily a DM, before enrolling on an IDC.

Also to a previous poster; certifying a certain number of DM's is only required as a prerequisite for Master Instructor.

Sorry, to clarify my last statement, you don't need to have been a certified DM for six months, only a certified diver. This, of course, is in addition to being a certified, in status, DM.

 

[Scott]

I know the obvious answer is cut my losses and move on if I'm not happy, but should I ask for an increase per student, or is this pay and situation the norm for a divemaster in a landlocked state. What's the point of continuing up the ladder when Instructor is $3000 for the course and he wants to pay $40.00 a student. You'd never break even.

$40.00 per student for an OW class as an instructor or that for a refresher? I'd move to another store or state if it's for OW.
The norm around this area is $90-$100 per student for OW, give or take.

You're the first DM I've ever hear who is actually being paid. Have fun diving. How much is your insurance going to cost? I didn't go pro until I went instructor.

Not directed to you Pete, but to those that feel a DM has no value.
When I became a DM in the 80's the store owner insisted that instructors pay DM's for their effort if assisting during open water classes. You want large classes and need a DM to meet ratios? Pay them! That was his take on it. If I recall the instructors received $50-$60 per student and DM's received $5 per student.
Since that time if I required the assistance of a DM to meet ratios, I've paid them.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I should move to Utah. I've never heard of a DM making any money unless they were conducting a resort dive.

 

[loosenit2]

Sorry, to clarify my last statement, you don't need to have been a certified DM for six months, only a certified diver. This, of course, is in addition to being a certified, in status, DM.

Appreciate you clarifying. I think we are now both challenging @Blasto ‘s claim that any diver can enroll in IDC, at least for PADI, not sure about other agencies.

 

[pauldw]

And the glory. Or whatever Bandit said to the Snowman.

"Sheriff Branford: I hear perfectly. The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Sheriff Justice: The [expletive deleted] Germans got nothin' to do with it!"
No, that's not it.
"Sheriff Justice: She insulted my authority! And that's nothin' but pure and simple old-fashioned communism."
Hmm. Nope, not it either.
"Sheriff Justice: There is no way, no way, that you could come from my loins."
Darn. I'm going to find this!
"Bandit: For the money, for the glory, and for the fun—mostly for the money."
There is it!

I should move to Utah. I've never heard of a DM making any money unless they were conducting a resort dive.

There are over a dozen dive shops in Utah. A few of them have even been around for more than a few years. Working for one of them, while also working for a Silicon Slopes tech company, will put you in the money. Emphasis on "while also."