Is It Feasible/Desirable to "Upgrade" a Regulator for Cold Water Use with an Environmental Seal

[KenGordon]

I think the 50F limit is very conservative. I have been diving Aqualung Legend regs with that 50F "limit" in 44F water and below 32F air temps for over ten years and never a problem. If you are going to be in true arctic conditions very often you may want to get a sealed regulator, but you will not freeze up if it's just a chilly 49 degree day.

In the U.K. freeflows due to regulator issues are quite common. Generally the coldest water is 4c (40f) fresh or 6c (43f) in the sea. Even at 8 or 9C (typical at 25m in freshwater in the summer) people manage to kill themselves this way. At ttemperatures above 10C I have seen poorer quality supposedly <10c rated regs start to get twitchy.

It seems a no brainer to me to always use cold water regulators unless you only ever dive in tropical conditions.

 

[MrVegas]

For further reading:

https://divelab.com/download/proced...ubaRegulatorFreezing-ChillingFacts-4-9-14.pdf

cold water | John Clarke Online

Why Scuba Diving Regulators Freeze

And for more extreme conditions:

Cold Water Regulator Blues

Cold Water Scuba Regulator Testing — U.S. Navy vs. EN 250

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a304487.pdf

I think most of these have been linked to on scubaboard before, and the topic comes up from time to time.

Fascinating subject to me as my diving is likely to get slightly deeper and colder in the next few years. (Not much -- just talking about recreational depths in the Great Lakes, possibly, but that can get pretty cold.)

As far as I can tell, there is no real consensus on what is a "safe" temperature for any reg. Below water temperatures of 50 degrees (or even a little higher) the odds of a free flow are increasing with the drop in water temperature, and can depend on outside air temperature before the dive starts, breathing rate, tank pressure (pressure drop), depth, regulator design, and the potential for water vapor inside the regulator. The ultimate answer would be to have redundant first stages (pony tank, doubles, H-valve).

The problem is that most testing (at least publicly available testing) seems to be done under fairly extreme conditions -- very cold water and very high breathing rate. That's good in the sense that it gives you an idea where things will fail. On the other hand, it doesn't give you a clear sense of what might be likely on a normal "cold" dive for those of us that will never dive in Antarctica. For example, an "easy" dive on a warm spring day where the bottom temp of the quarry might be 47 degrees at 50-60 feet.

I saw an ambulance pull up at a local quarry after someone had a free flow and apparently shot to the surface quickly. (Heard the story second hand -- saw the ambulance there.) Makes you think a little bit more about it.

 

[Storker]

In the U.K. freeflows due to regulator issues are quite common. Generally the coldest water is 4c (40f) fresh or 6c (43f) in the sea.

Up here on the other side of the North Sea, I haven't seen one single reg set which isn't cold water capable. I have my doubts that you could find one for sale unless you buy some shady old stuff from a private seller.

I've dived in seawater down to 3-4C, and 5-ish degree water is rather normal during winter around here. I've yet to see a 1st stage freeflow, but a 2nd stage freeze and freeflow is rather common. Typically after you've surfaced, or if you breathe out into the reg when you pre-breathe it. It's just a moderate annoyance if you know that it might happen and how to handle it.

 

[Bowers]

For further reading:

https://divelab.com/download/proced...ubaRegulatorFreezing-ChillingFacts-4-9-14.pdf

cold water | John Clarke Online

Why Scuba Diving Regulators Freeze

And for more extreme conditions:

Cold Water Regulator Blues

Cold Water Scuba Regulator Testing — U.S. Navy vs. EN 250

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a304487.pdf

I think most of these have been linked to on scubaboard before, and the topic comes up from time to time.

Fascinating subject to me as my diving is likely to get slightly deeper and colder in the next few years. (Not much -- just talking about recreational depths in the Great Lakes, possibly, but that can get pretty cold.)

As far as I can tell, there is no real consensus on what is a "safe" temperature for any reg. Below water temperatures of 50 degrees (or even a little higher) the odds of a free flow are increasing with the drop in water temperature, and can depend on outside air temperature before the dive starts, breathing rate, tank pressure (pressure drop), depth, regulator design, and the potential for water vapor inside the regulator. The ultimate answer would be to have redundant first stages (pony tank, doubles, H-valve).

The problem is that most testing (at least publicly available testing) seems to be done under fairly extreme conditions -- very cold water and very high breathing rate. That's good in the sense that it gives you an idea where things will fail. On the other hand, it doesn't give you a clear sense of what might be likely on a normal "cold" dive for those of us that will never dive in Antarctica. For example, an "easy" dive on a warm spring day where the bottom temp of the quarry might be 47 degrees at 50-60 feet.

I saw an ambulance pull up at a local quarry after someone had a free flow and apparently shot to the surface quickly. (Heard the story second hand -- saw the ambulance there.) Makes you think a little bit more about it.

i agree with this ^^^. I also reiderate his statement about events at a local quarry. One of the most popular and fatal quarries in the area (probably where mrvegas was talking about), the leading cause of accidents is do to divers going deeper with regs that aren't rated for cold and having freeze ups they didn't expect. Its not that mich more expensive to get environmentally sealed so just do it for your own well being would be my strong recommendation.

 

[Ironborn]

Thank you to everyone that has responded to my post.

Does anyone happen to know the part number for the environmental seal kit for AquaLung Titans? The dealer that I contacted said that they could not find it on their portal. I did some searching myself, and I think that the part number is 1005-24, but I am not sure.

 

[JackD342]

Kit part number was 128143, but it might not be available any more.
They need to call and ask:

1. Is 128143 available?
2. If not, can the Core kit 129945 be used instead? (Be sure to get the right knowledgeable person for an accurate answer, I strongly suspect the answer should be “yes.”)
3. If not, can the 7 or 8 parts be ordered ala carte? At least 3 are out of stock right now, including some common with the Core. Need to find out if they are just back ordered, or discontinued. No point if they aren’t all available eventually.

 

[Ironborn]

Kit part number was 128143, but it might not be available any more.
They need to call and ask:

1. Is 128143 available?
2. If not, can the Core kit 129945 be used instead? (Be sure to get the right knowledgeable person for an accurate answer, I strongly suspect the answer should be “yes.”)
3. If not, can the 7 or 8 parts be ordered ala carte? At least 3 are out of stock right now, including some common with the Core. Need to find out if they are just back ordered, or discontinued. No point if they aren’t all available eventually.

@JackD342

Evidently 128143 is not in the buyers' guide, but it is still available via a special order. It will take a bit longer but is otherwise not a problem. The price is $80.

 

[JackD342]

@JackD342

Evidently 128143 is not in the buyers' guide, but it is still available via a special order. It will take a bit longer but is otherwise not a problem. The price is $80.

Cool. You have a game plan. Maybe your LDS will give you a break on the cost if they install it at time of overhaul/service. One small note: The new secondary diaphragm is supposed to be changed at overhaul, but is NOT included in the parts kit. It is ordered separately. Ask them if they keep the part on hand, or if they will need a heads up to order ahead of time before you return for service.