Yes/No requirement for Med form

[Diving Dubai]

That situation isn't helped by people going on here about how they'll make their own decisions about whether someone else is medically fit to dive, when they aren't qualified to make those decisions. For example, T1D isn't epilepsy, and someone with hypoglycemia isn't likely to manifest that by suddenly and unexpectedly convulsing. Responsible T1Ds following DAN guidelines can dive. I suppose the concern for instructors is whether a given person is responsible, because some certainly are not, and no one wants to have to recover the body of a foolish person.

I'll use this example to answer @lowflyer above

You'll fill in the form tick a yes, and then get a Dr to sign a medical note. Now I'm not disputing the Dr (although I've had some flimsy medicals) But it still doesn't help me.

I know nothing about the ailment, so then rather than taking the Dr's note at face value (because no-one has ever lied to their Dr when trying to get a note) I'm obliged to get further information, Whether that's a call to PADI or DAN or my local Dr specialising in dive medicine.

Not just to check if its okay but to see what if anything I need to be watchful of.

Yes I'd rather note be sued by the family (in my area you go to jail while they figure things out) but even more, I'd rather the student has an enjoyable experience.

Yes I'm risk adverse while teaching students. I make no apologies for it

Certainly in the shops where I work, when people book courses they're sent the forms in advance and asked to email forms back to us. If we get a yes, then they get informed about needing a Dr's note before hand, so that we're not in a situation where people are turned away

 

[tridacna]

I'll use this example to answer @lowflyer above

You'll fill in the form tick a yes, and then get a Dr to sign a medical note. Now I'm not disputing the Dr (although I've had some flimsy medicals) But it still doesn't help me.

I know nothing about the ailment, so then rather than taking the Dr's note at face value (because no-one has ever lied to their Dr when trying to get a note) I'm obliged to get further information, Whether that's a call to PADI or DAN or my local Dr specialising in dive medicine.

Not just to check if its okay but to see what if anything I need to be watchful of.

Yes I'd rather note be sued by the family (in my area you go to jail while they figure things out) but even more, I'd rather the student has an enjoyable experience.

Yes I'm risk adverse while teaching students. I make no apologies for it

Certainly in the shops where I work, when people book courses they're sent the forms in advance and asked to email forms back to us. If we get a yes, then they get informed about needing a Dr's note before hand, so that we're not in a situation where people are turned away

The problem in your thinking/method is that by investigating further, you are assuming more of the risk.

If a patient ticks a condition, gets a med clearance and instead of accepting that, you go snooping in Google, question the student some more about your “research” and then go ahead and put them in the pool. If something happens to that student you’ll be destroyed by the plaintiff’s attorney. Think of the line of questioning...

 

[uncfnp]

I am not an instructor but I am a medical professional and very aware of risk and liability.

To the instructors that refuse to teach even with clearance. Just like a medical provider, you know your limits. If you elect not to teach a diabetic with clearance, I assume it is because you are not comfortable with your skills to teach this individual and not because you are second guessing the provider. And this is as it should be. But a “good” instructor (just like provider) will then either take steps to acquire the skills or help the individual find an instructor that is comfortable with it.

 

[Altamira]

I would submit that a diver with a known medical issue that has been resolved or controlled, and with the physician's clearance to dive, is a much lower risk for a repeat medical issue of the same nature than the general diving public that checks No on the med form. For example, a diver (diver 1) that has a past history of cardiac stents, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure, that gets two clean cardiac checkups a year is far less likely to have a cardiac event than someone (diver 2) that has never had a heart condition, but may have an unknown 95% arterial blockage. An instructor/dive op might have an issue training or diving with diver 1, but not diver 2. Makes no sense. If either diver has a medical event while diving, the instructor, DM, boat crew are likely going to treat the medical issue to the best of their ability, but are not trained to diagnose exactly what the problem is in either case.

 

[jlcnuke]

I'll use this example to answer @lowflyer above

You'll fill in the form tick a yes, and then get a Dr to sign a medical note. Now I'm not disputing the Dr (although I've had some flimsy medicals) But it still doesn't help me.

I know nothing about the ailment, so then rather than taking the Dr's note at face value (because no-one has ever lied to their Dr when trying to get a note) I'm obliged to get further information, Whether that's a call to PADI or DAN or my local Dr specialising in dive medicine.

Not just to check if its okay but to see what if anything I need to be watchful of.

Yes I'd rather note be sued by the family (in my area you go to jail while they figure things out) but even more, I'd rather the student has an enjoyable experience.

Yes I'm risk adverse while teaching students. I make no apologies for it

Certainly in the shops where I work, when people book courses they're sent the forms in advance and asked to email forms back to us. If we get a yes, then they get informed about needing a Dr's note before hand, so that we're not in a situation where people are turned away

I see a bit of irony in a post saying you have a doctor clear them before they get there so they won't be turned away at the same time you say you will turn away students with a doctor's clearance..

I assume at this point you've become an expert on most medical conditions listed since you state you're "obligated to get further information" though?

I'd argue that any instructor that doesn't feel qualified to teach a person who has a doctor's signature saying they're fit to dive is probably not fit to teach anyone to dive honestly. If you can't handle someone who has their known medical conditions under control and in the care of a doctor, you're highly unlikely to be qualified to handle someone who hasn't seen a doctor in years and doesn't know what their current medical conditions is, but can thus check "no" everywhere.

 

[Diving Dubai]

The problem in your thinking/method is that by investigating further, you are assuming more of the risk.

If a patient ticks a condition, gets a med clearance and instead of accepting that, you go snooping in Google, question the student some more about your “research” and then go ahead and put them in the pool. If something happens to that student you’ll be destroyed by the plaintiff’s attorney. Think of the line of questioning...

You misconstrue my meaning

My further fact finding would be seeking advice from PADI or DAN, and I can quote the PADi manual under risk mitigation and good judgement etc

 

[ps444mike]

I see both sides of this answering yes an no.. I've see people tell the owner / inst an he says I can tell you how to answer but if there is yes on there you need your Dr. to sign off..

My question is with the HIPPA act.. Ive seen people folders out in the open with there medical info.. I know some people don't wont there info out there for who ever walks into the shop to see. bad enough its got name address phone numbers an now medical history

 

[JackD342]

My question is with the HIPPA act.. Ive seen people folders out in the open with there medical info.. I know some people don't wont there info out there for who ever walks into the shop to see. bad enough its got name address phone numbers an now medical history

Your last point is fairly universal - it is bad business to fail to respect a customer’s private information. (Which is why any invoice, service record, etc. I dispose of goes through the shredder first)
HIPAA however does not apply to the RSTC/PADI Medical Statement or the MD sign off in the US. I don’t recall the specific explanation(s) on how it is not covered by that act and so don’t have accurate detail to share, but I am confident in that position. Which does not mean one should not take care with the documents.

 

[W W Meixner]

Folks...

I had a post retirement LDS position in Central Ontario for seven years...

The shop owner was a brittle type one diabetic...he was a DM for as long as I knew him...

For the last 4/5 years of his life he was a OW/AOW PADI Instructor...with an SDI OW Instructor crossover certification...

From what I'm reading here...because of the type one diabetes...these professional level certifications should not have been granted...

Numerous IT's...as well as two certification agencies signed off on the Type One Diabetes...was this acceptable...or should professional level certifications been denied...

I'd appreciate if one our knowledgable medical/dive professionals could chime in...

W...

 

[tursiops]

From what I'm reading here...these professional level certifications should not have been allowed...

Nonsense. One person made such a sarcastic comment. Read nothing into that.