SPGs on CCRs

[rjack321]

Hang on, y'all. I CAN plug offboard into my loop.

What I was saying is that, to run offboard for my dil would mean (I think - unless I'm missing something here, which is ENTIRELY possible) having my BO bottle filled with dil and slung on my left side. That's where I carry it (when only carrying 1 BO bottle), and I have a bungee loop, so I carry it SM-style.

Using that as my one and only source of dil would mean adding a 2nd whip to that 1st stage (on the BO) and running one of those whips across my chest to connect to the Offboard plug-in on my MAV, running another whip up to the power inflator for my wing, and then, possibly having a third whip on it that runs to my drysuit inflator.

Once you move to something other than air dil/BO you will most likely have:

A suit gas bottle with its own reg and hose
An onboard dil bottle feeding your ADV, over your shoulder to your MAV, and your wing
A BC whip on your left BO that is tucked into the bottle bungies unless you need it, then it'd be removed and cross your chest to plug into your offboard MAV port.

 

[doctormike]

@stuartv i think that we are talking about two different things... I don’t think we are talking about dilout, but what to do if you are out of dil and need something to inflate your wing or to do a dil flush.

Right now, are you running your dry suit off of your BO? If so, then you just move your dry suit hose to your offboard port. Can also be used to inflate an SMB.

It’s pretty unlikely that you will simultaneously run out of dil, need to inflate your wing and do a dil flush. Maybe I’m missing your point, though...

 

[stuartv]

Once you move to something other than air dil/BO you will most likely have:

A suit gas bottle with its own reg and hose
An onboard dil bottle feeding your ADV, over your shoulder to your MAV, and your wing
A BC whip on your left BO that is tucked into the bottle bungies unless you need it, then it'd be removed and cross your chest to plug into your offboard MAV port.

That is EXACTLY what I have now.

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv i think that we are talking about two different things... I don’t think we are talking about dilout, but what to do if you are out of dil and need something to inflate your wing or to do a dil flush.

Right now, are you running your dry suit off of your BO? If so, then you just move your dry suit hose to your offboard port. Can also be used to inflate an SMB.

It’s pretty unlikely that you will simultaneously run out of dil, need to inflate your wing and do a dil flush. Maybe I’m missing your point, though...

More likely that I missed something.

I thought an earlier post suggested that I move to offboard dil. I took that as suggesting what I think you're referring to as dilout.

 

[rjack321]

More likely that I missed something.

I thought an earlier post suggested that I move to offboard dil. I took that as suggesting what I think you're referring to as dilout.

Yea I offboard all my dil cave diving. I can burn through 3L of dil on some sawtoothy profiles and running out sucks.
But I definitely don't do that in the ocean.

Why not?
I'm headed to the great lakes next week and the charter banks 10/50. I'm bringing 15/55 and 21/35 BOs. If I offboarded my dil I would be forced to top those off with 10/50 which over the course of a week would gradually drag my fO2 down in BO - way lower than it needs to be. Conversely I'm totally cool not touching my BO and using 10/50 as dil all week even on a 140ft dive.

 

[rddvet]

Hang on, y'all. I CAN plug offboard into my loop.

What I was saying is that, to run offboard for my dil would mean (I think - unless I'm missing something here, which is ENTIRELY possible) having my BO bottle filled with dil and slung on my left side. That's where I carry it (when only carrying 1 BO bottle), and I have a bungee loop, so I carry it SM-style.

Using that as my one and only source of dil would mean adding a 2nd whip to that 1st stage (on the BO) and running one of those whips across my chest to connect to the Offboard plug-in on my MAV, running another whip up to the power inflator for my wing, and then, possibly having a third whip on it that runs to my drysuit inflator.

Being able to do that when needed is one thing. Having all that as my normal process just seems like a lot of connections to make when gearing up and a lot of hoses running around me.

Set up the onboard dil as drysuit and wing inflation

 

[rjack321]

Set up the onboard dil as drysuit and wing inflation

In caves where there's a floor, sure

In the ocean, no thanks. Wing and suit coming from different regs and different bottles for redundant buoyancy is a requirement.

 

[stuartv]

Set up the onboard dil as drysuit and wing inflation

Note: I am a newb on CCR.

How does that help? It seems like if I'm doing a lot of up and down, that is what is going to burn through my dil - filling and dumping my wing. And loop - though, looking back I think I was mostly controlling my buoyancy with the wing - meaning for the depth changes I was swimming, I was pretty much leaving my loop alone. So (for example), minimum loop volume at 40', but definitely not minimum loop volume if I went up to 20' - but then I would go back down. I guess I'm burning up dil whether I'm filling and dumping just the wing or dumping less wing and more loop volume. But, if I dump only the wing when I ascend, and then put dil back in when I drop back down, doesn't that conserve O2 more than if I were dumping and refilling the wing AND the loop?

I'm running a separate drysuit inflation bottle. I pretty much always have helium in my dil, so I wouldn't normally use it for drysuit inflation.

You know, everyone said that learning a CCR would be like starting over and that it would be hard. Well, to me, it's harder than that! Way harder. But, there is some definite satisfaction when it feels like I learned something or got a little bit better.

 

[Gareth J]

Stuartv

If you can, keep minimal loop volume on ascent, you will find it does help your buoyancy control. If you are saw toothing i.e. in and out of a hold, then perhaps not. Dumping C/L gas on ascent, means you inject less O2 to maintain the PO2.
One thing you will learn, is to go round things rather than over. (I had an OC buddy many years ago that religiously did this).

Personally, I have contents gauges on DIL and O2.
I also run my BOV and buoyancy (wing and drysuit) from on board DIL for my recreational diving (which is most of my diving). 95% of my diving means I carry an ali' 80 as off board DIL, with a whip which connects to the counter lung, wing or drysuit. The main reason I carry an off board so often is most of my buddies are OC. I had the luxury of diving without the off board on Sunday, shallow dives with two OC buddies, both with twinsets.

When using air as a DIL, its easy to just top up every day or few days. Because my onboard DIL is also connected to the BOV, it is important to ensure the DIL is full enough to provide initial bailout.

 

[NAND]

...I must admit: there are lots of useful thoughts in this discussion every rEvo diver comes across sooner or later. Really enjoying reading trough.

To me, it highly depends on how demanding I assume a dive to be initially- having impact on my overall dive planning. Whereever possible, I save the onboard DIL- having this weired habit of mostly controlling my bouyancy via the drysuit. Its only at target depth and if I decide to stay longer than 5mins when I top up into the wing to achieve better suit comfort.

On deeper dives, dives >2hrs or when forseeing strong currents or overheads, having a set of 4l DIL/O2 bottles can be a good alternative. This normally compensates the weight for added thermal protection so it somewhat just replaces lead in my case.

For good balance I usually try to utilize Eg. 7l BO bottles on both sides, rather than bigger ones one-sided. I find this much more comfortable hence those are smaller and (I fitted bungee cord loops behind my shoulders to the wing- best rEvo upgrade ever) allow me to pull them streamlines under the arm tight onto the side. Its only when utilizing for DIL or inflation that I release the bungee- so my stubborn brain always has active bottles straight in sight in front of me. (Kinda my own anti-stupidity procedure)

Not being used to BOVs, its like an automatism to me grabbing a reg off this position- after many years of doing so I really thought and contemplated having a BOV or not. I fully understand the advantages of a sanity breath, tried it on a friends unit- cant get used to it. The simplicity of having regs sorted is something burnt into my brain that makes me not using it somehow- if in a rare BO situation I just prefer to fully take the loop of my body and having a physically separated BO.

However, can only speak of myself- and I am far not perfect- but I see myself rather a bit conservative than a sensation seeker in this regard and perhaps its well trained procedures I do not let go off for some reason or another.

It up to now only happened twice I ran out my onboard DIL- both situations were situations where I was joining a tourist boat and after a longer wreck dive I met OOA divers in shallow waters who needed help- forcing me to hold onto them providing BO reg. This was my initial trigger to split the BO into 2 bottles whenever possible and whereever a single BO would normally do. Especially, when diving air on DIL and having only minor deco obligation (Eg. 15mins) such situation makes you really think when drifting on loop and seeing your BO gauge dropping on a paniking stranger.

But- said all this- I'm not concluding my methods are the only or right ones to use- just sharing personal experience... And: as said above- minimum loop volume is key to success...

Edit: pls excuse my poor english...