Importance of back kick in Cave Diving?

How much importance do you add to back-kick in a cave training program?

  • This is a precision diving skill that student should have BEFORE they even consider cave training

    Votes: 34 53.1%
  • New cave student should be familiar with the technique. Mastery he will develop with real experience

    Votes: 23 35.9%
  • I would not give a Full Cave certification unless a student demonstrated total mastery of this skill

    Votes: 6 9.4%
  • No need! There are too many other more important skills than this one.

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    64

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CAPTAIN SINBAD

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How much value do you give to back-kick in a Cave training program? This question was meant for cave instructors but experienced cave divers are more than welcome to share their views.

Poll attached. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
Not at Intro but should have it perfected by Full Cave.
 
Was speaking with Dr Craig Challen the other day (one of the Thai cave resuers) and one of the questions I asked him was how they managed the child through a restriction. Turns out that they would go through first, turn around, reach back to grab them, and then swim with the child backwards. He (knowing I'd done a GUE course) made a joke about it being another reason for GUE to promote the back-kick.

So while I have zero to contribute to this question, it does come in handy carrying unconscious kids in a cave apparently.
 
Not at Intro but should have it perfected by Full Cave.
I agree, and that would include the other kicks. Everyone has knowledge of the modified flutter and shuffle, but even more veteran cave divers don't use these kicks, and resort to the frog kick as the primary means of propulsion. The modified flutter is a genius of a kick because it keeps your profile narrow for small and narrow passages, has no refractory phase for better propulsion through current, and with mastery, movement of your ankles can cause trim changes for irregular shaped passages.
 
Not at Intro but should have it perfected by Full Cave.

same. you should know how to go backwards before you show up, but if it isn't pretty that's fine. Should be notably better by the time full cave rolls around, but to expect true mastery of something like that by full cave is IMO unreasonable. It takes a lot of practice to get that sorted out and while it is critical that you can go backwards without making a ton of mess or pushing off of things, the reality is you don't usually travel backwards very far in normal circumstances. As you get to smaller cave where it may be required, you'll have a lot of experience built up and should hopefully have it sorted out by then.
 
2nd and 3rd answers.

Heck I used a back kick yesterday while drifting along in a 3kt current.

Ken Sallot
 
So question for Cave instructors ... would you hold back certification at the full-cave level because a diver has not perfected back-kick and horizontal precision? Or would you give them the Full Cave certification so that they may develop this skill after training in real environment?
 
So question for Cave instructors ... would you hold back certification at the full-cave level because a diver has not perfected back-kick and horizontal precision?
I'm not a cave instructor, but I would hope the hell not. There is no need to 'fast track' someone who is not ready. I've seen instructors make 'exceptions' and then watch/cringe as the hoped for improvement fails to take place. I will not recommend those instructors to anyone. I've even been known to actively steer peeps away from them.
 
So question for Cave instructors ... would you hold back certification at the full-cave level because a diver has not perfected back-kick and horizontal precision? Or would you give them the Full Cave certification so that they may develop this skill after training in real environment?

Issue apprentice and have them come back is the SOP with most instructors. Lack of true mastery of the back kick is not likely something that alone would hold off a flul cave card, but if you can't hold horizontal trim you shouldn't have gotten to full cave in the first place. Passing intro without mastery of both is fine, but you shouldn't get out of apprentice if you can't dive flat.
 
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