No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

[kelemvor]

The current DiveRite looks look exactly the same as the ones in the link you posted, and those are the same as what's on my VDH. I'm guessing DiveRite have 'upgraded'?

For all I know they are identical except for the pricetag. I don't even see power inflators on the diverite website except attached to wings or bcds. Actually, now that I think about it.. I'm not using the dge inflator anymore because I switched to Air2. Air2's are kind of pricey, so my SAD still includes a regular inflator and extra regs.. if it gives out on a trip I'd switch back to the old school domafaches.

Maybe using a vindicator valve handle and/or having a routine reminder from the captain right before diving can help.

Vindicators are a good and cheap solution to the problem. Unfortunately, most people dive on rental tanks.. and in my experience that means the cheapest valves money can buy. Vindicator Valve Knobs $15 bucks.

 

[gypsyjim]

What a silly & thoroughly foolish statement:

What ever cert cards you hold, and what ever competency and experience you think you have, the Dive team have to treat you as a novice until you prove differently by your actions

It may be true that you have more experience and higher certifications than the dive team, but you're a passenger on their boat.

Despite my experience and quals, I've no problem with the crew checking my gear, because I understand I'm fallible. I also right before I jump, no matter on what checks I (or someone else have done) will always purge my reg and watch my contents and dfinal check I've gas in my wing.

There is no valet service on any boats in my area. It's pure laziness and there's no excuse why the person diving the gear can't take responsibility for assembling the gear (unless there's a physical impediment)

Watching people assemble their kit is a good indicator of what to expect them in the water.

If I'm running the boat and I don't see you check you gear, and don't know you (or don't' trust your abilities) I reserve the right to ask you to physically demonstrate all is well with your gas and BCD. While you're doing that, I'll be checking your valve, and you'll never know because I'm light fingered.

If I do know/trust you or you're in a Tec/RB rig I won't touch yoru gear but will make a verbal check to which you're make a physical check and give an affirmative response.

No matter what waivers you sign, if you get into trouble, I get into trouble too. No thanks.


Back to the OP @BadGoat I wouldn't personally ever dive with gear that has a malfunction on the surface, it's just asking for trouble. You have no idea what other things might happen underwater. I might continue a dive with a disconnected inflator but more likely I'll bin the dive because I can't be faffed with oral inflate underwater.

I am not going to trade insults with you, or question your training. That is childish.

If you are a part of a team, you are all playing by the same set of rules and you are each watching each other's back. That describes team diving.

If you are NOT a part of that team, and you take it upon yourself to alter or adjust another diver's gear without their permission you are potentially putting their life at risk. Just imagine the reaction of your "team", should a complete stranger begin to change and adjust one of your team's rigs without consulting you, simply because they knew they were "right"...
It would not fly, I am certain.

If you see something that you find questionable, or in your opinion, risky, you are quite free to speak up, but you are totally out of line if you take it upon yourself to alter their gear without their consent or knowledge.

 

[Jay]

Perhaps you guys have got your wires crossed

Unless I am under your instruction, actively participating in a class you are teaching, just touching my life support system can be taken as assault.
You are free to observe, and even to comment, but unless I give you permission, my gear is not yours to touch, alter or adjust in any way.

I assume you're not including a pre-splash check of the tank valve in that comment?

And that's the only thing DD has commented about physically touching without permission:

If I'm running the boat and I don't see you check you gear, and don't know you (or don't' trust your abilities) I reserve the right to ask you to physically demonstrate all is well with your gas and BCD. While you're doing that, I'll be checking your valve, and you'll never know because I'm light fingered.

 

[Frosty]

From my POV I go back to first lecture I ever had about diving--actually from my dad. dive accidents are rarely one huge incident .More often its a series of small things that together make for something serious. In this case regardless of the right/wrong of someone touching your gear The BC should have been fixed before even thinking of taking the plunge.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Well, y'all can say that you always do XYZ because I do too. I check my gear over everytime and also do the huffs off reg whilst looking at my guage. I do it every single time without fail . . .except for a couple of times that it turned out that somehow I must have become distracted because I've still managed to enter the water twice in 20 years without my air turned on. How did that happen? Cuz ya know, I check without fail every single time!!

Then there was the time that I was the last diver in by stride, as I called out, wait for me! And found myself at 15' trying to figure out what felt different and thereupon realized that I didn't have my reg in my mouth.

In any event, what I'm trying to say is that we are human, at least I am. While I endeavour to do my checks *every* *single* *time* without fail, apparently, I've still managed to fail, a time or two. I try to keep that in the front and the back of my mind. Keeps me a bit humble and hopefully a bit more careful, every single time.

 

[Diving Dubai]

And that's the only thing DD has commented about physically touching without permission:

Thank you Jay, yes only touching and checking pre-dive.

The only person's gear I would ever fix/adjust or whom I'd allow to adjust/ fix my gear, is my wife.

Anyone else I'll signal or communicate with wetnotes/slate and let them sort the issue. unless they are really struggling the only assistance I'll give is to gently keep them stable in the water column

In any event, what I'm trying to say is that we are human, at least I am. While I endeavour to do my checks *every* *single* *time* without fail, apparently, I've still managed to fail, a time or two

Me too. never splashed without gas on, but got to the point of about to enter with my gas off a couple times which my final checks caught, then had to ask for my gas to be turned on. I'd rather people learn from my mistakes than make them themselves

 

[gypsyjim]

Perhaps you guys have got your wires crossed



I assume you're not including a pre-splash check of the tank valve in that comment?

And that's the only thing DD has commented about physically touching without permission:

This thread was not a discussion about checking gas valves, but about other divers physically making changes without permission.

 

[gypsyjim]

For all I know they are identical except for the pricetag. I don't even see power inflators on the diverite website except attached to wings or bcds. Actually, now that I think about it.. I'm not using the dge inflator anymore because I switched to Air2. Air2's are kind of pricey, so my SAD still includes a regular inflator and extra regs.. if it gives out on a trip I'd switch back to the old school domafaches.

The only fatality I have witnessed resulted from a series of mistakes or problems which began when a diver and the crew realized that that diver had an Air2 reg, but the rental BC supplied by the op had the standard inflator valve, which will not fit the Air2 inflator.
Since the boat was already on site before gear was assembled, the crew had no way to resolve the equipment mismatch, and advised the diver to just dive with the valve disconnected. From my seat near the rear of the boat I watched this discussion, and I really felt that the diver was not comfortable with doing this, but agreed anyway.
There were other mistakes and miscommunications that I believe all contributed to the fatality, although the true cause was never established as far as I know.
Since that dive my brother who dives an Air2, began carrying a set of adaptors that could help solve such a dilemma, should it occur.

 

[peeweediver]

Well, y'all can say that you always do XYZ because I do too. I check my gear over everytime and also do the huffs off reg whilst looking at my guage. I do it every single time without fail . . .except for a couple of times that it turned out that somehow I must have become distracted because I've still managed to enter the water twice in 20 years without my air turned on. How did that happen? Cuz ya know, I check without fail every single time!!

Then there was the time that I was the last diver in by stride, as I called out, wait for me! And found myself at 15' trying to figure out what felt different and thereupon realized that I didn't have my reg in my mouth.

In any event, what I'm trying to say is that we are human, at least I am. While I endeavour to do my checks *every* *single* *time* without fail, apparently, I've still managed to fail, a time or two. I try to keep that in the front and the back of my mind. Keeps me a bit humble and hopefully a bit more careful, every single time.

Very nice post. I could say..."I'm an instructor with 7 billion dives to my credit and absolutely, positively check everything twice before splashing in!!!". But....was on a shore dive in Bonaire last week, floated out to about 7 feet, started down, came back up, looked at my wife and said..."Uhm, could you please turn on my air?". Not so perfect, am I.
However, wife and I discussed this post and agreed, no inflator hose connection, no dive. That's just us.

Rob

 

[Dan]

I don't mind for someone (DM or crew or dive buddy) to "fix" my gear without asking as long as he / she tells me afterwards.

There is a situation at one time when a DM, as part of their "service", was to swap the tanks for us during surface interval for the 2nd dive of 2-tank boat dive. He installed my 1st stage upside down without telling me about it. During the dive I didn't understand why my regulator hose became shorter than normal, especially whenever I turned my head to the left. I ended up pulling the primary regulator hose with my teeth on the mouthbit and ended up biting off the regulator mouthbit.

I learned later on that when you install the regulator upside down, the LP port for my primary regulator hose, that would normally be on the right side of the 1st stage, would then be on the left side. The LP hose then has to loop around to the right, making the hose length shorter.

The DM excuse was by installing the 1st stage regulator upside down I'll avoid bumping it against the back of my head during back roll entry to the water. Had he told me about it beforehand, I would have swapped the LP port for the power inflator which was then coming out from the right port with that of the primary regulator hose and avoid biting off my mouthbit.

In the end I ended up swapping the LP ports around and taking his advise to install the 1st stage regulator upside down. Since then I try to:
(1) install my gear on the tank myself whenever possible,
(2) advise the crew the right way to install my regulator on the tank if they insist to help as in many liveaboard that I have been on.
(3) make a quick check on its upside down position including the valve in fully open position, SPG showing around 3000 psig, listening for any hissing noise for potential leak around the valve and a couple quick purge of the primary regulator while watching the SPG needle response before donning on the gear.