My wife and I are thinking about getting Ocean Reef Neptune full face masks or something similar and would like to know what sort of setup people are using. A couple of guy's I div with insist we need to use twin tanks I understand there logic but I am planning on using single cylinders 12ltr or 15ltr only because my wife can’t manage the weight of twin tanks thanks for your advice
OceanReef Neptune
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NEScubaBill
Registered
Don't listen to them. One tank will do just fine with one tank. If you use comms then naturally you will use more air. My 2 cents, not an expert. Love my Neptune. No more fog.
So, first, why do you want to use a full face mask? I ask because there are some issues with using FFM's that don't exist using normal mask/second stage arrangements. You need to be aware of them before you decide that's the direction you want to go.
You have to carry some sort of redundant air source. Whether that's a separate tank is up to you. The argument against a separate tank instead of simply an octo with a backup mask is because positive pressure FFM's will continue to lose gas when they're off your face, potentially draining your tank even if you've switched to a normal second stage. Note, not all FFM's are positive pressure. Having an actual redundant air source mitigates this potential.
There's more, but that covers the basics of your questions. My general advice is you shouldn't be using a FFM unless you have a specific need.
You have to carry some sort of redundant air source. Whether that's a separate tank is up to you. The argument against a separate tank instead of simply an octo with a backup mask is because positive pressure FFM's will continue to lose gas when they're off your face, potentially draining your tank even if you've switched to a normal second stage. Note, not all FFM's are positive pressure. Having an actual redundant air source mitigates this potential.
There's more, but that covers the basics of your questions. My general advice is you shouldn't be using a FFM unless you have a specific need.
The Ocean Reef Neptune FFM are not over pressure (what some people call positive pressure masks). Then do not freeflow when not on the divers face. They fit, breathe, and function well. AS stated above, FFM do require additional training and practice. They have the ability to add communication, however talking does use more gas. When I teach the Ocean Reef Neptune FFM course, I teach several ways of gas sharing including doffing your FFM, securing a standard octo, then donning your backup mask. I also teach the use of quick connects to share gas without removing your FFM. Neither of these situations require a double tank setup, just proper gas management skills.
Disclosure:
Scubatude is a Ocean Reef Dealer, Ocean Reef Repair Center, and we teach FFM.
Disclosure:
Scubatude is a Ocean Reef Dealer, Ocean Reef Repair Center, and we teach FFM.
Addicted2H2O
Contributor
As primarily a ffm diver I can share a little of my experiences. First off as Scubatude stated above, the Neptune (and G.Diver) aren't true positive pressure so they don't freeflow underwater when removed from your face. They act very similar to a traditional 2nd stage regulator in that when you submerge them with the inside of the reg (where the mouthpiece would be) facing upward, they freeflow until flipped over just like a normal 2nd stage would. But it's advisable to use them with a QD, which would eliminate a freeflow incident if the regulator got stuck open. Plus it's much easier to store them separate from the lp hose, too.
Something else to consider, which I haven't done yet because I just haven't gotten around to it, but install a QD fitting on your octo, too. That way if your buddy is diving a ffm and gets into an OOA situation, rather than having them doff their ffm altogether, you can disconnect your octo's 2nd stage and connect the hose to your buddy's ffm. Personally I have a QD fitting on my traditional 2nd stage and normally carry it and a traditional mask in a BC pocket during all my ffm dives. That way if I need to doff my ffm and switch to a traditional setup, I still have an octo I can share if necessary. It's all just contingency planning really.
One thing you'll want to do if you do decide to go the ffm route is get in the pool and spend an hour or so practicing doffing and donning it underwater. Switch between your ffm and a traditional setup many times until you can do it effortlessly while neutral in the water column. And then if you're ever doing training dives with it, take a few minutes during your dive to switch between the two just to keep yourself proficient at it. You never know when it might be necessary to do so during an actual dive. I'll give you an example and to be honest it was the one time I didn't have a regular mask with me to make the switch. A few weeks ago I was finishing up dive # 4 with an OW class at the lake and the two divers I was with and I were getting ready to exit the water. I'd just given the signal to level off @ 15 ft and make our safety stop when all of a sudden my omni swivel failed and started freeflowing air. I was already down to about 900psi in my tank and losing air fast, not to mention my mask was filling with water. Had I had a conventional mask available, I could easily have doffed my ffm and switch to a traditional setup. But that not being the case my options were to either doff my ffm, put my octo in and finish my safety stop wetface in 50 degree fahrenheit water or just make my controlled ascent. Being that we never descended below about 25 ffw, I opted to just make my ascent to end the dive.
I'm not certain why someone would recommend needing to dive doubles when using a ffm, as gas consumption isn't really all that different from a normal mask and regulator. You might use a little bit more gas but not enough to where you're going to need doubles to get the same bottom times as those diving traditional kits.
Here's a video of me doffing my ffm and switching to a traditional mask and reg and then back again from a couple years ago. It was my first time videoing it (my wife was videoing actually) and I was a bit nervous for that reason. Also, please ignore the green water as my camera settings were not correct and the red filter was on. The water was actually quite blue (see my avatar). Lastly, ignore the fact that I left hair in the upper skirt of my conventional mask when I switched to it, as I was again a bit nervous being videoed and showing my wife (and anyone else willing to watch) how to perform this skill. I will eventually make a new video to replace this one, one that also shows proper hand signals..
Something else to consider, which I haven't done yet because I just haven't gotten around to it, but install a QD fitting on your octo, too. That way if your buddy is diving a ffm and gets into an OOA situation, rather than having them doff their ffm altogether, you can disconnect your octo's 2nd stage and connect the hose to your buddy's ffm. Personally I have a QD fitting on my traditional 2nd stage and normally carry it and a traditional mask in a BC pocket during all my ffm dives. That way if I need to doff my ffm and switch to a traditional setup, I still have an octo I can share if necessary. It's all just contingency planning really.
One thing you'll want to do if you do decide to go the ffm route is get in the pool and spend an hour or so practicing doffing and donning it underwater. Switch between your ffm and a traditional setup many times until you can do it effortlessly while neutral in the water column. And then if you're ever doing training dives with it, take a few minutes during your dive to switch between the two just to keep yourself proficient at it. You never know when it might be necessary to do so during an actual dive. I'll give you an example and to be honest it was the one time I didn't have a regular mask with me to make the switch. A few weeks ago I was finishing up dive # 4 with an OW class at the lake and the two divers I was with and I were getting ready to exit the water. I'd just given the signal to level off @ 15 ft and make our safety stop when all of a sudden my omni swivel failed and started freeflowing air. I was already down to about 900psi in my tank and losing air fast, not to mention my mask was filling with water. Had I had a conventional mask available, I could easily have doffed my ffm and switch to a traditional setup. But that not being the case my options were to either doff my ffm, put my octo in and finish my safety stop wetface in 50 degree fahrenheit water or just make my controlled ascent. Being that we never descended below about 25 ffw, I opted to just make my ascent to end the dive.
I'm not certain why someone would recommend needing to dive doubles when using a ffm, as gas consumption isn't really all that different from a normal mask and regulator. You might use a little bit more gas but not enough to where you're going to need doubles to get the same bottom times as those diving traditional kits.
Here's a video of me doffing my ffm and switching to a traditional mask and reg and then back again from a couple years ago. It was my first time videoing it (my wife was videoing actually) and I was a bit nervous for that reason. Also, please ignore the green water as my camera settings were not correct and the red filter was on. The water was actually quite blue (see my avatar). Lastly, ignore the fact that I left hair in the upper skirt of my conventional mask when I switched to it, as I was again a bit nervous being videoed and showing my wife (and anyone else willing to watch) how to perform this skill. I will eventually make a new video to replace this one, one that also shows proper hand signals..
I dive the Neptune Space G Divers & carry an independent gas supply, a Pony-13, Pony-19 or Pony-40. A brand new swivel connection blew the O-ring, during its first dive, during the predive, upon final connection, before water entry. It passed training, predive checks & disconnects but still blew. It came new, out of the package. I had to remove it, to start my dive. I don't recommend the swivel.
Diving a single tank, like an AL80, necklace your standard full length hose & OCTO. It can also be used for your buddy's OOA. Don't short hose it, it needs to be long enough to provide gas. You retain configuration this way.
Diving double tank, necklace it again, if back mounted or you can opt to long hose style your bottle/sidemount, in a carry configuration.
IGS/Carry/Bail/Stage/Sidemount configuration, whichever you wanna call it - leaving it stowed is last because you have to get to it. Longhose style, with standard hose length and necklace it. If no necklace, wrap it around the back of your neck & let it dangle in-front of you & dive.
I'm one "for" carrying a bail-out bottle, with an FFM. I necklace an OCTO & carry a pony.
Diving a single tank, like an AL80, necklace your standard full length hose & OCTO. It can also be used for your buddy's OOA. Don't short hose it, it needs to be long enough to provide gas. You retain configuration this way.
Diving double tank, necklace it again, if back mounted or you can opt to long hose style your bottle/sidemount, in a carry configuration.
IGS/Carry/Bail/Stage/Sidemount configuration, whichever you wanna call it - leaving it stowed is last because you have to get to it. Longhose style, with standard hose length and necklace it. If no necklace, wrap it around the back of your neck & let it dangle in-front of you & dive.
I'm one "for" carrying a bail-out bottle, with an FFM. I necklace an OCTO & carry a pony.
MY SWIVEL BLEW TOO ON 1ST DIVE - Welcome to the club, throw it out
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