Mistakes on first "real" dives

[Gareth J]

With all due respect, Marie, you only dive Great Lakes wrecks. Your expectations are different from someone who dives in other environments. Go dive in the tropics and you'll typically get a longer and more detailed briefing, a DM who will act as a guide, and it might even be the custom to assemble your gear on the boat.

As for buddy checks, PADI (and probably other agencies) hammer them into new divers. So if that procedure is skipped on a charter dive, it might seem to the new diver that they are "doing it wrong." Because, at least according to the way it's taught, they kinda are. No need to then scold someone asking serious and valid questions and claiming that they must want their hand held.

That's not a fair representation of what Marie said. I don't thing she advocated skipping any procedure, safe diving practice, or ignoring your buddy check.

The buddy check is not the boats responsibility, its the divers.
If the diver is not happy with the buddy check, its for them to say so. If it's too quick, skips something or has not been done, the diver should speak up. The buddy check is between the two divers making up the buddy pair. It is a component part of their dive plan, but specifically the divers responsibility.
The site briefing is the responsibility of the boat. If a diver is not happy with the site briefing, or requires more information, again the diver should say so.
The issue is 'guided dives', if the boat is providing that service (or curse), then the guide does need to ensure that all the divers are aware of the dive plan and related dive discipline. But again, the buddy check is not the guides responsibility, that is still the responsibility of the buddy pair. Its also arguable if the guide has any responsibility for the air management, however, a prudent guide would keep an eye on gas consumption rates, and particularly on the lesser experienced.

I still occasionally have a dive guide, often, they know where the interesting life is for me as a photographer. It can be a great benefit for site location. However, I manage my dive, gas, time and decompression. I will also abort the dive if I am not happy or ask for the plan to change if I don't thing its suitable, especially if its not 'safe''.

There is a difference between a diver under tuition, and a qualified diver.

The guide does have a responsibility if the diver is not experienced enough for a site, but part of that responsibility is also the divers.

Gareth

 

[yle]

So, just wondering if you guys can offer input. It is normal for a charter to skip predive checks and not mention safety stops? We didn't have buddies, but went as a group (only 5 of us). DM was a bit of a dick and expected me to know everything (why didn't you put your gear together before we left the dock? IDK, because I've never been on a boat dive??).

I'll add my 2 cents to the conversation:

1. Your first dive, blowing through your air... completely understandable. It was a new environment (and a cold one!) and you were probably still distracted by trying to understand why all the important predive stuff (gear check with buddies, dive briefing, etc) was blown off. Kudos to you for learning quickly enough to have a more successful second dive!

2. Your assessment of the DM is, from what I can tell, spot on. You didn't assemble your gear when he thought you should have... and there were only five of you?? DM's are trained to be helpful to the divers they supervise (but of course not all remember their training.) You would think if he only had to supervise five of you, he should have noticed that you weren't assembling your gear when he wanted you to... and would have said something.

3. As for your confusion over buddies, and the related predive gear check, and diving as one big group: it should have been the responsibility of the DM to (a) assume everyone had learned standard procedure in their OW class and (b) explain how deviations from standard procedure (e.g. no assigned buddy pairs?) would be handled. But maybe he didn't see it that way.

Important lesson here, though: just as some OW divers forget their training, some DMs forget theirs. Ultimately, you are still responsible for yourself. Ask questions if you need clarification on procedures before a dive. And you can always check your own gear (BCD function, regulator function, weights are secure...) with or without a buddy present.

 

[yle]

They don’t expect to be led about by the nose by a DM. Why wouldn’t you put your gear together before the boat left?

I would agree that a good strategy for a new diver is to watch what everyone else is doing and use what they see as a guide for what they should be doing. That is, if everyone else is assembling gear before leaving the dock, new diver should do the same.

But... new divers are still learning. And DMs are supposed to assist divers, at the very least by offering advice, that they supervise. So...

Why didn't the OP assemble his gear early? Because he's new at this.

Why didn't the DM take 3 seconds to say "hey, you should assemble your gear before we leave the dock"?

If this DM is too busy to adequately supervise five divers, god help them if they ever try to work in warmer water.

 

[INQuarryDiver]

If you can, join a local dive club and find mentors to show you the ropes. Clubs often charter boats for the lakes. Diving with experienced club members is great way to learn.

Amazing how fast we forget what it is like to be a novice. It's like the sophomores picking on freshman. Geez.

Also, I have found that the proper procedures get glossed over in the real world unfortunately.

 

[jlcnuke]

So, I took OW a couple years ago and did a lot of surface supplied air diving. Recently took a refresher as i was thinking about getting into scuba. The refresher went great, I executed all the skills easily and had great buoyancy control in the pool (surprise to me). Went on a 2 tank charter recently. The DM (ostensibly) briefly went over the dive plan, basically just what we were going to look at and that we would turn the dive at half tank. OK cool. Nobody did buddy checks, noboby mentioned safety stops. We all got in the water and descended. Visibility was OK (20 feet i think?), and water was cold at the bottom, like 41F. I lost my buyoncy at the bottom and kicked up some silt. Had a hard time maintaining trim (was too positive I think), got tangled in a line at the bottom. For some reason all of this freaked me out and I burned through my air like crazy (surfaced with 600 PSI after 20 minutes, started with 3000). On the way up, my "buddy" didn't safety stop and went straight to the surface so I followed, we were then scolded by the DM.

So that kind of sucked. I was hesitant to get back in for dive 2, but I swapped tanks and went for it. I think I knew what to expect this time so that dive went pretty smooth. No problems other than kicking up a little silt once. Went up with >1100 psi and 40 minutes ish bottom time (wasn't the lowest person this time!).

So, just wondering if you guys can offer input. It is normal for a charter to skip predive checks and not mention safety stops? We didn't have buddies, but went as a group (only 5 of us). DM was a bit of a dick and expected me to know everything (why didn't you put your gear together before we left the dock? IDK, because I've never been on a boat dive??).

First off, congrats on pulling yourself together after that terrible first experience.

Predive checks vary from "practically enforced" to "did anyone do anything other than check their own air was on??" depending on the boat you're on and the divers there.
The "buddy up" can similarly vary from "everyone's on their own" to "everyone is everyone else's buddy" to "everyone make sure you're paired up with a specific buddy". If you're not comfortable with how it's being done, speak up and take the initiative to get to your comfort level (maybe by asking one of the other divers to be your buddy, explaining to the DM or another diver that you're new to all this, etc).
Oh, and your DM was a tool for not recognizing your inexperience and offering to help you as they should have.

 

[Gareth J]

Oh, and your DM was a tool for not recognizing your inexperience and offering to help you as they should have.

Excellent!!

 

[Verses]

Really appreciate all the input. I don't feel as bad about blowing through my air or general newbie-ness.

I think I'd like to get some dives down in either a "class" setting before going on another charter dive, so I'm looking into my options there.. Am also planning on joining a local dive club now.

 

[msinc]

As a given divers experience level changes with time and more dives so does what he comes to expect on future dives. This is true of just about anything you do that involves being "guided" by someone you don't know and for certain they don't know you.
All that said, who ever is doing the guiding should take a little time to try and figure it out. I can easily see how someone who has only ever been around dive boats that get you to the spot and say "we're here, have fun folks" would probably get upset at the treatment they receive in the Cayman's, for example. Some of those boats do everything but kick your fins. This can make an experienced diver believe the DM thinks for some reason their skill level is beginner.
Again, this is a common problem that affects more than just diving. I have been on hunting trips where the guide ranged from "okay, there is the woods" to telling me which bear I want to shoot, how to stalk it every step and then telling me when to pull the trigger. It didn't seem to matter when I told him I've been at this for 40 years.
You wont have any problems, Verses, because you were able to assess the situation and immediately make some very positive changes. You did the right thing, even when it wasn't the best of situations. One other good thing, at least it happened on one of your first "real" dives. For me the blowup was after four or five good dives and that made it a bitter pill to swallow. I really believe that no one wants to be a bad dive master...they just often don't know how they could be a lot better.

 

[Schwob]

Really appreciate all the input. I don't feel as bad about blowing through my air or general newbie-ness.

I think I'd like to get some dives down in either a "class" setting before going on another charter dive, so I'm looking into my options there.. Am also planning on joining a local dive club now.

You've got your head in the right place. Just stick with it, keep thinking - as you are - why you are doing what you are doing and keep reading / soliciting input / feedback (as you are) and the right or even better way to do things will be obvious to you ... for all sorts of situations. There also is nothing wrong with more training first if you are so inclined. Good buddies some that could mentor a little if asked are a good thing - found in a club or otherwise. As others pointed out, the biggest step is to truly accept that full responsibility for your dive and your safety lies with you and you alone. Full acceptance of that has the very pleasant side effect to lead you to do all the right things to assure your own sirvival and have a pleasant dive. Truly relying on others (not saying tou are) for help and guidance is a bit of a risky business and one should only count on it when firmly arranged - e.g. with the buddy. But even then, responsibility lies with the diver.
I know you know this and knew this before your dive. Truly internalising it so acting accordingly is a bit of a process. And it varies with people. From what I read here I think you'll have that part down in no time.

Offering a couple more thoughts. Not as wisdom or great advise (way to inexperienced for that), just thoughts and encouragement:

Local quarries. Often poo-pooed as not real open water dives. Certainly much less exiting than diving a teal wreck in real open water (or diving a reef). Often silted up, bad vis. If you trained in the MidWest you've probably been there. But, for all their shortcomings, for the 20 bucks or so entrance fee, they are great practise grounds. Practise some more. Be comfortable launching an SMB. Hover, hover and turn. Hit the buoancy course.. with a trusted buddy watching after that trust is earned do some simple safety drills like mask off, mask on, change to Octo, maybe an air share.. Some other dive do some below the thermocline... The more you are used to, the less will startle you. (Not recommending you intentionally entangle yourself to harden yourself against the sensation practise things in aafe ways only).

My first real dives experience was quite different maybe the opposite. Went with my son to Bonaire, fresh after cert. What a great trip. Only did shore dives. Nobody but you and your buddy watching out for anything for you. Sonce not coming home or coming home to the wife w/o son were bad options, the thinking around truly being responsible for my dives set in rather quickly and quite became the expectation. That does not mean I am a better diver. The diving that we did there was straightforward and easy (and beautiful). But it molded a mindset. A good one.

Only later (other trip) when exposed to a DM lead dive with the expectation to follow the DM and all sorts of options to be "bemothered" and "watched" and being viewed moch more as "a taken care of customer" than a diver and talking to a couple with 20 years of diving experience that could not even fathom to plan and do their own dive and telied on being taken care of and looked out for all this time dod I realize there is a whole other world of diving out there. Convenient - but very risky imho.

I think you are well on the right way. Kudos to how you handled things. If you were / are a bit shocked about how it went down and caught you by surprise, I would understand. Accelerated learning experience... is how I'd view it.

 

[wnissen]

Really appreciate all the input. I don't feel as bad about blowing through my air or general newbie-ness.

I think I'd like to get some dives down in either a "class" setting before going on another charter dive, so I'm looking into my options there.. Am also planning on joining a local dive club now.

I had a similar experience with my first non-instructed dive, don't feel bad for a second. And I was technically "Advanced" at that point, having completed that immediately after my open water. I couldn't believe my two buddies left me at 60 ft (on the descent line) when I was ready to surface!

What seemed like laxity was really just them giving my responsibility to me. After all, if you look on the cert card, you'll see "ISO Autonomous Diver". In other words, you are responsible for taking care of the things in your sphere of responsibility. It is sobering, to be sure. And on this boat they did assemble our gear, helped us into it, and handed us a defogged mask!