The changing Scuba Industry

[stuartv]

I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.

I moved here to VA from SF.

Your post doesn't surprise me at all. You live in a pretty insulated bubble that has its own microcosm of cultures that are mostly pretty far removed from the rest of the country, much less the world. You have stereotypes that you apply to the people around you and, from your post, it appears that you live up to many stereotypes of San Franciscans.

I'm not saying your post is good or bad. Just recognizing where you are from.

All in all, I would say that if you want to keep diving, you should forget about liveaboards and book yourself to go places that offer the variety of activities that you want, including day charters for diving. Cozumel and Waikiki both come to mind. You can be around younger adults and have non-diving activities. I think you are also more likely to have some younger adults on day charters than on liveaboards. As you say, "your" crowd wants experiences without a huge investment. Going on a liveaboard is a big time and financial commitment. I would not expect people who are less "invested" in scuba to go on a liveaboard. I suspect that you yourself would not have been going on liveaboards except that, based on living in the Bay area, I would guess that you make more money than the national average for your age group. So, a liveaboard seems affordable to you where it's not to most people your age.

Asking the liveaboards to change to a format of offering diving mixed with other activities sounds like a tough financial proposition. You are (unsurprisingly) like the 2008 Obama supporters. Everybody wants change. Nobody agrees on what the changes should actually be. You all want a boat that offers more than just scuba diving, but what are the chances that everyone is going to be happy with 2 days of diving, 2 days of parasailing, and 2 days of jungle hiking? Just as an example. The notion that a boat could offer up a big ole smorgasbord of activities is simply naive. The cost for a berth on a liveaboard like that would be WAY more expensive than what they already are. The boat's costs to just offer one activity (scuba) well are high enough.

If you REALLY want to spend a week on a boat, and have a buffet of activities, then I would say your best bet is to find a charter sailboat, and charter it with a small group of friends. You can dictate what you do. Having the boat accommodate a few dives among other activities seems pretty feasible. Maybe even just put in at ports where you can rent the necessary gear and/or go out on a day boat from there, then back to your chartered sailboat after diving.

 

[Blasto]

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community.

That's at stark contrast to my impression. As a whole, I've found the diver community to be a selection of some of the best people from all walks of life. The degree of mutual support, trust, honesty, non-competitiveness, and overall well-meaning you see among divers is unparalleled in office environments.

The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance).

You've just described the stereotypical millennial - young by definition, left-leaning like most young people (older folks tend to realize it's just theater among the same people), and of course attracted to currently fashionable industries.
Nothing wrong with that. But that's about the portrait of the average diving millennial, not an exception.

We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? ... They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. Or They want easy, fun things.

Of course you have to fly somewhere tropical to have nice, fun, easy diving. What's unusual about that? Most watersports are much easier in a tropical environment - and it's where most young people prefer to have fun, in my experience.

It's not like there's anything the industry can do to make the water warm enough without a drysuit. Wait, there probably is... but you really don't want that because of your next point.

I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again.

You've seen the tip of the iceberg. You've barely started diving. There's so many places to see, so many locations. Australia's been working hard to dredge more room for deeper and busier shipping lanes through the GBR, so it's been hit hard, especially the popular destinations. Most of the world's reefs, however, are still quite alive, and the dive industry is trying to stall off their destruction.

 

[AdivingBel]

You are (unsurprisingly) like the 2008 Obama supporters. Everybody wants change. Nobody agrees on what the changes should actually be.

Ironic much??? To the pub, dude...

 

[Lorenzoid]

As was said in that "other" thread about old geezer liveaboards, young people with high-paying jobs who also have the ability to take a week off from work at a time--because they can get away with it without jeopardizing career advancement, and they haven't yet had kids, and don't yet have to care for aging parents, etc.--are a TINY minority, living in a small window of time out their lives. Now, you take that tiny demographic and count the tiny number of scuba divers among it, and it is apparent why the dive industry wouldn't target marketing at them.

This goes to what Stuart said, but when one lives in a small bubble surrounded by people like themselves, it's easy to get the impression that there are more people like you than there really are.

 

[dmaziuk]

3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?"

Yeah, if we all just gone died at 33 as the deity intended, there wouldn't be none of that "ageism" crap.

 

[diver0008]

I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.

2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.

3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.

4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?

After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.

If you are looking for beauty, you will see it all around you. If you are looking for trouble, that too can be easily found, evidently. Too bad you have so many hang-ups. Probably a good idea for you to give up this wonderful activity enjoyed by wonderful people and stay in your judgmental little bubble until you get older, and maybe a little more open-minded.

 

[RayfromTX]

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[Steve_C]

Before I took up diving I used to do a lot of fishing. From a boat. From shore. From the end of a pier. Along a creek. I have spent countless hours with folks from all sorts of life and education. Some had PhDs, some had essentially no education. Some had no teeth. Some dressed well. I got along with (almost) all of them. We just fished and communed with nature. Diving is like that. There is a wide variety of types of people. I get along with most of them. But I do not push my beliefs on them and I let the relationship if any develop at its own speed. Other than having enough money to dive and being old I do not fit any of your stereotypes. I have also learned not to judge folks before I know them.

Their are lots of threads about instabuddies. Hopping on a boat for a week is instabuddies with spades. Why don't you look around and find a dive club in the SF area with your kind of folks. Then go on the trips with them.

 

[runsongas]

should add an option to swipe left and hide the post

 

[runsongas]

Their are lots of threads about instabuddies. Hopping on a boat for a week is instabuddies with spades. Why don't you look around and find a dive club in the SF area with your kind of folks. Then go on the trips with them.

most of the dive clubs are predominantly locals that skew older as they learned to dive in the 60s/70s. the sf scuba meetup is younger, but only a small number are looking to do more than a handful of dives on a trip and good candidates for a liveaboard.