8 changes...

[Blasto]

Crotch straps are optional even on a harness. They are not meant to be used with weight belts.

Although I have to confess to having worn an elastic weightbelt under a strap harness a few times, but only for the reason of staying neutral in my suit with my gear off, and with just a couple weights on it.

Such a belt acts as part of my exposure suit, not my BC, which has separate weights, and is not meant to be removed except after the equipment.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

unless your weight belt has droppable pockets on it which is what you pull instead of the belt...

Agreed. When I think weight belt, I'm thinking about the classic webbed belt with threaded on lead weights.

 

[Bob DBF]

Traditionally the weight belt is worn over the BC and its crotch strap. This would be difficult in a lot of modern jacket BC's due to their construction, but crotch straps have not come standard on jacket BC's in years, most have no attachment to hold one.

Another school of thought wears the weight belt under the crotch strap. When horizontal the belt can be slid off to ones left or right without encountering the crotch strap. When vertical one has to be more careful when dropping the belt, however should it inadvertently slide off your butt, the crotch strap may hold it long enough for it's recovery.
I use this method when using a crotch strap, however I only carry around 10# on the belt, with the rest on my rig.


Bob

 

[gcarter]

When I wore a BCD, I split my weights between back trim pockets, front integrated (removable) pockets, and a belt. Better trim, and neither the BCD with the pockets in nor the weight belt was overly heavy.

I now use a BP/W with a steel plate, trim pockets on my cam bands, and a belt worn under the crotch strap.

 

[Patoux01]

I never figured why one would be panicked when removing a weight belt, but what do I know .

Some of us we wear a belt because we want weights, not because we want droppable weights.

 

[Colliam7]

This has been an interesting discussion. I was already familiar with Harry's article, and his view of weight belts. I don't necessarily agree entirely with that particular point in the article, but, given Harry's impressive diving and instructional experience, his thoughts are well worth serious consideration. I certainly agree that the manufacturing industry appears to be moving toward weight-integrated BCDs. And, a number of divers appear to prefer them to use of a webbed weight belt.

I personally prefer a steel backplate as an essential part of my weight system, in part because of where it puts the weight (adjacent to my physiologic center of lift). For a similar reason I prefer a steel cylinder. And, I consider both of these to represent a form of 'weight-integration'. I also use a weight belt - specifically a rubber freediving belt - which adds a small amount of ditch-able weight (e.g. usually 4 lbs). And, I wear that belt under my BP crotch strap. The one thing I do not use are BCDs with removable weight pockets. I don't like where most of these BCDs put the weight - 'below' my center of lift (e.g. at waist level), and forward of my vertical midline (coronal plane). And, I frankly don't care for many of the quick release systems in use.

But, all of these are MY personal preferences, which work well for ME. And if someone else wants to use one or more different approaches, that is their choice. FWIW, I also periodically practice skills - removing my weight belt, as just one example - so I have reasonable confidence that I can do it smoothly in the event I need to do it urgently. And, that is something (regular skill practice) that I think is far more important than what particular gear configuration / weight system a diver chooses to use, and is something that is far too seldom done by most divers after certification. I agree that good instruction is important. But, I can spend weeks with a diver helping them learn - indeed MASTER - a skill. But, if they never practice it again, that muscle memory is not at all permanent.

 

[Kharon]

Following this thread has got me wondering. How often has anyone here had to drop weights. Yeah, I know, theoretically it only has to happen once. And I don't have all that many dives (250-275) so I'm not the best judge. But still, how likely is one to need to drop weight? Especially if their kit is well maintained and they are not overweighted.

This issue seems to me to be a lot of adue about nothing. It seems more likely to drop ditchable weigh accidently. Never had to ditch weight but I have accidently lost weight twice. Both times my fault. That issue has been corrected.

Not saying I'm right - just the way it seems to me for the way I dive. Other conditions obviously may differ. Just curious.

When diving and working in cold water with low vis I wear a BC with some weight on my tank straps (not ditchable), and some (about half) in my BC pockets. I consider the pocket weight ditchable. In warm, high vis water I use a harness and snorkel vest underneath with small weight pockets on my shoulders and waist. I consider all those ditchable. By ditchable, I mean if I have time to deal with it - not immediately urgent.

However, in a life threatening situation, I'm not going to muck around. I'm going to pop the chest and waist straps and dump the whole rig and worry about recovering it later. I can buy more equipment, I can't buy another life.

 

[miked]

Weight belt merits aside, weight belt + crotch strap seems like a remarkably bad idea.

IIRC, way back in the mid 70s when I got my initial cert, the rule was that the weight belt goes on over anything else it might cross/overlap (e.g. a crotch strap)

 

[CuzzA]

Following this thread has got me wondering. How often has anyone here had to drop weights. Yeah, I know, theoretically it only has to happen once. And I don't have all that many dives (250-275) so I'm not the best judge. But still, how likely is one to need to drop weight? Especially if their kit is well maintained and they are not overweighted.

This issue seems to me to be a lot of adue about nothing. It seems more likely to drop ditchable weigh accidently. Never had to ditch weight but I have accidently lost weight twice. Both times my fault. That issue has been corrected.

Not saying I'm right - just the way it seems to me for the way I dive. Other conditions obviously may differ. Just curious.

When diving and working in cold water with low vis I wear a BC with some weight on my tank straps (not ditchable), and some (about half) in my BC pockets. I consider the pocket weight ditchable. In warm, high vis water I use a harness and snorkel vest underneath with small weight pockets on my shoulders and waist. I consider all those ditchable. By ditchable, I mean if I have time to deal with it - not immediately urgent.

However, in a life threatening situation, I'm not going to muck around. I'm going to pop the chest and waist straps and dump the whole rig and worry about recovering it later. I can buy more equipment, I can't buy another life.

I ditched my ballast once. It was a precaution as I was fishing and surfaced a quarter mile from the boat which did not see me for twenty minutes as I had a couple sharks that kept wanting to steal my catch. I dropped the lead in the event me or my BC was bitten. Ultimately I had to give up the fish and finally the boat spotted me.

 

[markmud]

I'm not sure i want everyone else to teach like I do!

FWIW, I teach the 1/4 back turn for safety reasons. Off and on feel the same when you lock them. 1/4 off feels differently than those two and I like that. What I don't like is a DM turning my air off as he's checking it. That's happened three times now and I have learned to get to the back of the boat while keeping the DM in front of me and away from my tank. Three breaths and I fall back into the water frustrating their attempts to assassinate me.

What would I like to see changed? STOP THE SHAMING!!! There is no need to dis your fellow instructors. So, you don't like the way they teach? Don't teach that way. It's unprofessional to keep acting like they are doing things wrong.

Hi Pete,

Disclaimer, as you know I am not a dive professional; diving is my avocation.

I agree with you regarding the quarter turn thing. As a former professional mariner and tankerman, 1/4 turn is best FOR ME!

I had a captain turn off my gas just before I jumped in the drink. It was a learning lesson. I now breath my reg and watch my spg to make sure my valve is open before splashing. Mentally, I am prepared to deal with a closed valve while u/w.

2 of my 3 instructors were very good about teaching to my preferences. My OW instructor worked with me because a slick store-owner-salesman sold me a back-plate-wing thing, even though my instructor thought the jacket BC was easier to teach and use for newbs. My instructor was correct (the instructor worked for the "slick store-owner-salesman guy). My back-plate-wing is in a land fill now. As for weight belts, he taught it if you wanted it.

(General question to all, not to Pete) Do you like weight belts? I am happy for you! I don't like them.

Dorkels...perfect term.

The rest seems logical to this avocational diver. However, I am a firm believer in evolutionary processes--everything should evolve as new techniques, paradigms, and equipment come forth.

Thanks Pete,
markm
PS: Your students learn a lot from you by following your example; I have not been instructed by you, but I have spied on you