Open Water Training at Blue Grotto

[cerich]

It is indeed a double standard that needs fixing. Either BoulderJohn will contact PADI about this or I will and ask for specific guidance.

I would also never consider teaching AOW in there because of the overhead, cavern is good there. Open water would suck, I think...just like Ginnie.

Jim , I was there for a demo day a few years back, the OW classes being taught had them all in the cavern and the AOW classes more so and it was in fact a cave because there was a overhead and enough stirred up silt that all the various student divers could talk about was how they couldn't see, ran into the ceiling etc. It was a s&$t show. Obviously most days all ends up well, as it tends to do..until it doesn't.

 

[Colliam7]

American Pro Dive.... SINCE you asked.... and the location is Blue Grotto.... Owner threw a FIT when I refused to do an Adv OW for a student because it was an overhead environment to get the required depth... had me call PADI (already knew what they would tell me) and they were like NOPE we would NEVER tell anyone they could do that... but BG had a PADI rep in (John I think, before he retired) that gave them a "waiver" because APD did so many certs there and it was only a "little into" the overhead... The problem is a LOT of instructors are doing it , not just APD because of the "waiver" from PADI which I am sure was given but is not valid. It is a double standard that needs to be FIXED...

I would agree - if there is a double standard, it needs to be fixed.

I may have misunderstood your post. But, it appears that you have PADI telling you one thing - officially, or so it sounds. And, yet you choose to believe something else.

So, since you think this needs to be fixed, I presume that you, as a PADI OWSI, and self-described PADI Pro on SB, followed up with PADI QA by telephone to report this operation, right?

The Regional Manager that you refer to was probably Jon Coon. He did retire several years ago. Jon was a diver of considerable experience, and was quite safety-oriented. BUT, PADI Regional Managers DO NOT independently give 'waivers'. For any possible variation with regard to standards, PADI QA and Training have to do that.

 

[cerich]

 

[cerich]

air bell popular...yeah that is in open water not. Also the 'always clear vis" is not exactly accurate in my experience

The only mention of advanced training needed is for the deep cavern deeper than 100ft, in fact they encourage people to go to a area j"just past peace rock in 60-80ft where you can clearly see the exit" which as long as you don't look straight up is true, if there haven't been a bunch of classes turning the site silty, which is more common than not during training weekends based on anecdotal reports from others

Large guideline is reliable eh?

 

[boulderjohn]

John - will you do this again?

It's been done, but not by me.

 

[cerich]

John - will you do this again?

why Jim? Blue Grotto has been operating this way forever, everybody knows.

most in our industry will feel the record speaks for itself, versus the message of "do as I say not what I do" and "the rules are a bit overblown" it sends.

It is one of the spots for ow training because it never gets blown out, everybody makes money and the fact that even breaking the rules is terribly forgiving, until it isn't

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Hello Jim,

No such waiver exist. Overhead is overhead and PADI training dives may not be conducted in an overhead environment with the exception of wreck, cavern, and ice specialty course dives and some tec courses.

Hope that helps clarify/confirm. If I can assist further please let me know.

Best regards and thank you for checking.
-----------

The above answer was sent to me by PADI a few moments ago

 

[cerich]

A

Hello Jim,

No such waiver exist. Overhead is overhead and PADI training dives may not be conducted in an overhead environment with the exception of wreck, cavern, and ice specialty course dives and some tec courses.

Hope that helps clarify/confirm. If I can assist further please let me know.

Best regards and thank you for checking.
-----------

The above answer was sent to me by PADI a few moments ago

So them how many AOW cards have been issued for people that did all dives there.. don't hold breath waiting

 

[Imbodie]

I would agree - if there is a double standard, it needs to be fixed.

I may have misunderstood your post. But, it appears that you have PADI telling you one thing - officially, or so it sounds. And, yet you choose to believe something else.

So, since you think this needs to be fixed, I presume that you, as a PADI OWSI, and self-described PADI Pro on SB, followed up with PADI QA by telephone to report this operation, right?

The Regional Manager that you refer to was probably Jon Coon. He did retire several years ago. Jon was a diver of considerable experience, and was quite safety-oriented. BUT, PADI Regional Managers DO NOT independently give 'waivers'. For any possible variation with regard to standards, PADI QA and Training have to do that.

Jon was the rep that "gave" the waiver.... within weeks of retiring... and yes I know reps can't give waivers...
Yes I have confirmed with PADI, actually did it on speaker phone so BG Owner could hear them say it!!! I already knew.

Did I report the operation... uuumm NO... the operation (Blue Grotto) is not regulated by PADI... and everyone would deny that American Pro ever did ANYTHING wrong... Like I said, they generate a LOT of cash for PADI...

I did not chose to believe ANYTHING... I got in as close to a physical confrontation with BG as possible without blows being exchanged because he was doing his best to get me to do the cert... he had already been paid and thought he could weasel me into doing it....

And just so we are clear, I don't want to stop BG from making $$... I LOVE what the new owner has done with the facility... What I DO want is for any agency (not just PADI) to make certain that ADV OW classes are not taught there if they require classes to be in an OW environment.... I mean there is plenty non-overhead water for doing OW classes and cert dives.... and if you can get in there when there are not 10 other classes its a great place... As far as fresh water dive sites that you can teach deep... pretty sure Hudson Grotto is it (commercially) Troy Springs is deep enough and just ever so slightly an overhead... enough that makes it not a good site. YAY for Hudson Grotto... cause I am NOT teaching in salt water....

Tim

 

[Imbodie]

if there haven't been a bunch of classes turning the site silty, which is more common than not during training weekends based on anecdotal reports from others

Large guideline is reliable eh?

On a personal note, I LOVE diving there when there have been a ton of students and its super silty.... great practice for a silted out cave dive.... I've been at 102' with maybe 1' of visibility and LOVED it. Yet, you are correct when it is that bad, not a place for any training class other than cavern.