Hose Routing Decision

[PfcAJ]

I've never been in an OOG situation, but I imagine aside from the entanglement issue, and even bigger problem if it involves a "panicked diver" is the fact they are most likely going to be heading to the surface. Now this diver has you on a leash, out of reach because they have 7 ft. of hose to seperate themselves from you, they're probably above you, kicking you in the head, maybe inflating their BCD and either you play tug of war with your long hose or go along for the ride.

Of course this scenario is purely theoretical, but still possible. I'd rather have that diver in arms reach to control them. Nevertheless, it makes you think about who you're diving with. Choose wisely.

You don't have to deploy the entire length of hose, you know.

 

[CuzzA]

Here's your panicked diver "flailing around": at this worst case scenario point (after rejecting her regulator & ripping off her mask), it doesn't matter what kind of "safe secondary" air source regulator system you utilize to donate -->the panicked diver OOG whether actual or perceived, in her present cognitive state of mind & action, is heading immediately for the surface. . . You do your best as an assisting diver (as the Instructor in the video is trying to do) to recover some semblance of control on the way to the surface.

In thirteen years now consistently diving the 7' long hose Primary DIR configuration, I've donated for real in three non-panic circumstances --twice for for divers in Open Water low on breathing gas, and once for an Indonesian Dive Guide who had O-ring blowout on his yoke valve on initial descent (donated my 7' long hose, switched to my necklaced bungee'd back-up, shut down his tank valve, displayed my SPG showing 150 bar indicating plenty of breathing gas for us both --and we both elected to continue the dive, sharing gas for nearly 30 minutes dive time on a nice shallow 9 meter part of of the reef system at a dive site in Raja Ampat).

Can't disagree with that either. The panicked diver is likely not accepting assistance. Although, I've seen some videos where it appears panic sort of builds up and then just explodes. But still, in OW in a calm air share situation I don't see much benefit to a long hose other than continuing the dive like you described. For me, if my buddy lost their air at the beginning of the dive I'd probably be taking us both to the surface hopefully to fix whatever went wrong and then head back down. And if not, there's always another day to dive. Dive accidents are usually a result of a chain of events, right? The next issue may be the one that really creates a problem.

Regarding the panicked diver video. This hit very close to home. 7 years ago I decided to have my daughter try scuba. We were in Mexico. She did well with all the pool testing. This was a discovery scuba dive. I was in the water personally checking her out. The instructor seemed like he was on his game for sure. All went well until the dive. I was obviously allowed to go along but was told I had to not interfere with the instructor who was with my daughter. I respected the direction and it seemed to me like good logic. An instructor who has been diving for 10 years in Mexico clearly more experienced and qualified to handle any emergencies. Then it happened. I was at 30 feet looking up at her and the instructor who were at 20 feet or so and descending. He was all over her like glue. She was equalizing ok and heading down. Her mask flooded and it all fell apart. Seeing this video made me re live that day. She spit out her regulator and off came her mask. Up she went. I darted up from 20 and I could not catch her. The instructor may very well have saver her life. I watched as he tried to stay with her. She would not take his octopus and bolted. He reached up an grabbed her by her fin. He held onto her enough to where he slowed her down but I am sure she held onto some of the air as she was not trained in CESA. I caught up to them and she was floating on her back saying her lungs hurt. The fear for her well being that came over me was unlike I have ever experienced. We headed back and got her into the boat. She felt better by the afternoon, never dove again, is an active soccer player, and clearly somehow got really lucky. That taught me a lesson I will never forget. The quote " when the s..t hits the fan you will not rise to the occasion, you will fall to the level of your training, that is why we train so hard" ... I have tried to hold onto that ever since that incident. Not sure how I got to sharing this off of a "hose routing " thread but the video above hit very close to home.

Wow. Glad your daughter came away without injury. I always try to keep in the back of my mind that as long as I can breathe there's nothing down below I can't handle at depth. Whether that's true or not it keeps me level headed. There's definitely something to be said about balancing confidence. Too much confidence and you may create a problem, too little and you may not be able to handle a problem.

You don't have to deploy the entire length of hose, you know.

I assume you mean if the hose is held under a canister light at your waist? I agree, unless it's just tucked in your harness, then a good pull would free all but the short length under your arm.

 

[PfcAJ]

Can't disagree with that either. The panicked diver is likely not accepting assistance. Although, I've seen some videos where it appears panic sort of builds up and then just explodes. But still, in OW in a calm air share situation I don't see much benefit to a long hose other than continuing the dive like you described. For me, if my buddy lost their air at the beginning of the dive I'd probably be taking us both to the surface hopefully to fix whatever went wrong and then head back down. And if not, there's always another day to dive. Dive accidents are usually a result of a chain of events, right? The next issue may be the one that really creates a problem.



Wow. Glad your daughter came away without injury. I always try to keep in the back of my mind that as long as I can breathe there's nothing down below I can't handle at depth. Whether that's true or not it keeps me level headed. There's definitely something to be said about balancing confidence. Too much confidence and you may create a problem, too little and you may not be able to handle a problem.



I assume you mean if the hose is held under a canister light at your waist? I agree, unless it's just tucked in your harness, then a good pull would free all but the short length under your arm.

Just hold the hose with your hand. The oog guy can pull all he wants but you still maintain control of the hose and the situation.

 

[Bonuss]

All good info ( it doesn't have to agree to be good). I have been contemplating reconfiguring my "standard" OW rig, never liked the angle of the hose / reg in my mouth. Several good options in this thread for me, had not considered the body size previously either (broad shoulders, somewhat long torso).

Thanks

 

[Landlocked123]

Measure twice order once ! Put all your gear on.. wetsuit, hood etc. etc.. same as you were diving. Put the primary onto the tank, use a small piece of rope and literally see what length you need. Make sure you can turn our head left and right.. you should have something very close. Go from there depending on hose lengths provided. Some retailers allow free swap if sized incorrectly.

 

[Stoo]

Here's your panicked diver "flailing around": at this worst case scenario point (after rejecting her regulator & ripping off her mask), it doesn't matter what kind of "safe secondary" air source regulator system you utilize to donate -->the panicked diver OOG whether actual or perceived, in her present cognitive state of mind & action, is heading immediately for the surface. . .

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or the opposite! In the situation in the video, the "victim" would benefit from someone hanging onto her and controlling her ascent speed. Long hose or not, the critical thing is to maintain control as much as possible, and that's only going to happen if the donor is very close... I am not in any way saying a long hose prevents a handss-on approach, I'm just saying it isn't necessary.

I can't see any way that the diver in that video, had she somehow managed to get the donated 7' reg in her mouth, would have kept it there. As you point out Kevrumbo, her instinct is to bolt for the surface and the only way to prevent that is by being hands on.

Like you, I have had three (I think) real OOA situations over 40+ years of diving. Only one was a student and he had a rental reg fall apart on him (The faceplate and diaphragm fell off!) The was pre-octopus days, so he was officially without a reg. Fortunately, I was close by and was on him very quickly.

The other two were actually when I was on vacation. In both cases, some random person crashed over to he signalling that they were low on gas (they were). I donated my reg and we surfaced easily including a safety stop. Both on my "medium hose"...

 

[Stoo]

So you honestly believe that the environment you are in has an influence on someone panicking, and that one is soothed by the idea of being in a cave when running out of air and hence won't panic? May I suggest there's something very wrong with the guys you're training if that's the case?

Maybe I'm brain dead, but I have no idea what you're saying here. All I said was that in open water, a long-hose is a superfluous piece of gear. There's no harm in having one, I just don't think it serves any purpose. It's a bit like wearing doubles but never diving below 50'. They don't do any harm, but they certainly aren't necessary.The whole purpose for the development of a longer hose to allow two divers to exit through a restriction in an overhead environment, one after the other (obviously). In open water, ideally you would be surfacing face to face with the OOA diver, so that extra 3' of hose is not really doing much of anything. (Nor is it doing any harm!)

Most of the people I dive with use long hoses but that's because they all cave dive at least once in a while. There's no point swapping out hoses... I don't cave dive anymore, so my 7-footer is coiled up in a box somewhere.

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't cave dive anymore, so my 7-footer is coiled up in a box somewhere.

I can put it to use if you don't want it anymore

 

[Caveeagle]

Measure twice order once ! Put all your gear on.. wetsuit, hood etc. etc.. same as you were diving. Put the primary onto the tank, use a small piece of rope and literally see what length you need. Make sure you can turn our head left and right.. you should have something very close. Go from there depending on hose lengths provided. Some retailers allow free swap if sized incorrectly.

That's a good idea, accept your optimal hose lengths could change once you are in the water. St least for me, its hard to simulate the horizontal, zero gravity position with the head up. Measuring (dry) is not a bad idea, but double check while in the water would be even better.

 

[tursiops]

All I said was that in open water, a long-hose is a superfluous piece of gear. There's no harm in having one, I just don't think it serves any purpose.

Whereas, some of us do see potential harm in OW; therefore, it is not a neutral proposition, it is a losing proposition.
However, to be fair, if one is switching regs back and forth between BM and single-tank, perhaps they just don't want to change out the long hose. But they are moving hoses around anyway, to get the SPG onto the reg with the long hose, so I don't see why not to clean-up and optimize the OW setup while reconfiguring.