Use of the long free diving fins while on scuba when spearfishing

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If I was doing what you do I would be using a scooter.
Where I dive it's just almost logistically impossible.
Just Sunday I decided to go do a freedive for abalone.
I parked on the side of the road and hiked about 1/2 mile down a hill and across a cow pasture in a 7mm wetsuit with weightbelt and all my other freedive gear in a float tube. Then when I got to the bluff I had to scale down a cliff to get to the water. It was a chore to hike down and back even with freedive gear. There were a lot of fish but I didn't bring a gun.
I figured I could do the hike with a steel 72 on a backpack next time and explore the area on scuba. But for me I wouldn't be able to hike anything more than a 72. A 100 would be too much.
In this case a scooter *might* make it down but there would be no way in hell I'd pack that sucker back up the hill with a stringer of fish and a tank on my back.

Most of the diving us locals do os remote shore based diving with a lot of trail hikes through the trees and across grassy fields. People do use private boats but places to launch are scarce and like in the case of where I dove Sunday, it would be a 25 mile boat ride from the closest port to get there unless you were set up to beach launch across a course sand beach with four wheel drive or use a very steep dirt road with a boulder beach. There are no charter boats in my area.
So as you can see we're pretty remote with steep rough terrain to get to the water, so scooters don't even make it on our radar.
 
If I was doing what you do I would be using a scooter.
Where I dive it's just almost logistically impossible.
Just Sunday I decided to go do a freedive for abalone.
I parked on the side of the road and hiked about 1/2 mile down a hill and across a cow pasture in a 7mm wetsuit with weightbelt and all my other freedive gear in a float tube. Then when I got to the bluff I had to scale down a cliff to get to the water. It was a chore to hike down and back even with freedive gear. There were a lot of fish but I didn't bring a gun.
I figured I could do the hike with a steel 72 on a backpack next time and explore the area on scuba. But for me I wouldn't be able to hike anything more than a 72. A 100 would be too much.
In this case a scooter *might* make it down but there would be no way in hell I'd pack that sucker back up the hill with a stringer of fish and a tank on my back.

Most of the diving us locals do os remote shore based diving with a lot of trail hikes through the trees and across grassy fields. People do use private boats but places to launch are scarce and like in the case of where I dove Sunday, it would be a 25 mile boat ride from the closest port to get there unless you were set up to beach launch across a course sand beach with four wheel drive or use a very steep dirt road with a boulder beach. There are no charter boats in my area.
So as you can see we're pretty remote with steep rough terrain to get to the water, so scooters don't even make it on our radar.

Yea, I would NOT use a scooter in your area.....Even here I prefer just my freediving fins....did you see my friend Ron Smith's alternative to scooters or freedive fins....the Dol-Fin ?
[video=youtube;aAxmFOLM3Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAxmFOLM3Ak&[/video]

Very light weight...about the same weight as my Dive R's....and a great deal Faster and more efficient than DiveR's or any other freedive fin....and...they work great with a single tank and bp/wing....even better with no wing. Unlike mono-fins, the coordination you use with these is not hindered by wearing a scuba tank.

Price is double my Dive R's....but, next time I have extra money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd love to have my own Dol-Fin :)
 
What I found is that a single tank with no wing is almost about as efficient as freediving as far as slipstream.
I figured out that the water channels around and over the tank evenly and runs right down each side in the space the wing would normally occupy. Even with a very small wing the water has to get diverted from this natural channel and that already begins to cause drag as minor as it may seem. As speed increases so do all these little points of potential drag exponentially.
I did some testing on my own in Tahoe in July and tried several different configurations and combinations. I found that the most efficient slipstream I could come up with on scuba was using a single steel 72 on a plain harness (no plate) with one single reg on a short hose. I did have an SPG but I had it tucked under the front of my waistband not clipped off on a left D ring so all the extra hose was tucked up against my body. I used a low volume freedive mask with no snorkel attached, and freedive fins which aren't the best, they are Picasso Black Teams which are a plastic blade entry level fin, but it's what I have for now. Basically I minimized everything so that there was no vibrating of hoses or things sticking out, and I worked on finding the most efficient body positioning (similar to the video). I found that legs straight back and body as straight as possible with arms either back at sides or straight out forward with hand interlocked was best. Arms forward gets tiring though after a few minutes, but it does break and divide the water before it gets to your head.
I actually emailed then talked on the phone with the guy who makes those Dol-fins, but the price was a little prohibitive for me to afford one before my trip, but I still want one.
I have a feeling with the new level of speed that fin could provide an absolute slick and minimal scuba rig would have to be mandatory to be able get the full benefit.
If the diver in the video had just a plain tank strapped to him with one single reg he could have stayed down and covered a hell of a lot of ground. Whether the charter would have allowed such shenanigans as diving with no BC is debatable.
The only thing I'm curious about reaching that level of speed on scuba is that sometimes the purge can begin to get depressed causing the reg to self purge at high current speed. In this case something like a side purge like a Poseidon may have to be used. Also a double hose would work but I would be concerned that the larger floppy corrugated hoses on each side would rattle around too much and cause drag.
 
What I found is that a single tank with no wing is almost about as efficient as freediving as far as slipstream.
I figured out that the water channels around and over the tank evenly and runs right down each side in the space the wing would normally occupy. Even with a very small wing the water has to get diverted from this natural channel and that already begins to cause drag as minor as it may seem. As speed increases so do all these little points of potential drag exponentially......

Any thoughts about some how securing the wing to the plate along it's perimeter so it doesn't wrap the tank ? I use a DSS 17 wing.

I know bungied wings are frowned on and are usually found on large wings. That's not what I am talking about. I don't remember where, but I thought I saw an wing that had small fabric loops and tabs on the perimeter that were meant to keep the wing secured to the plate.
 
What I found is that a single tank with no wing is almost about as efficient as freediving as far as slipstream.
I figured out that the water channels around and over the tank evenly and runs right down each side in the space the wing would normally occupy. Even with a very small wing the water has to get diverted from this natural channel and that already begins to cause drag as minor as it may seem. As speed increases so do all these little points of potential drag exponentially.
I did some testing on my own in Tahoe in July and tried several different configurations and combinations. I found that the most efficient slipstream I could come up with on scuba was using a single steel 72 on a plain harness (no plate) with one single reg on a short hose. I did have an SPG but I had it tucked under the front of my waistband not clipped off on a left D ring so all the extra hose was tucked up against my body. I used a low volume freedive mask with no snorkel attached, and freedive fins which aren't the best, they are Picasso Black Teams which are a plastic blade entry level fin, but it's what I have for now. Basically I minimized everything so that there was no vibrating of hoses or things sticking out, and I worked on finding the most efficient body positioning (similar to the video). I found that legs straight back and body as straight as possible with arms either back at sides or straight out forward with hand interlocked was best. Arms forward gets tiring though after a few minutes, but it does break and divide the water before it gets to your head.
I actually emailed then talked on the phone with the guy who makes those Dol-fins, but the price was a little prohibitive for me to afford one before my trip, but I still want one.
I have a feeling with the new level of speed that fin could provide an absolute slick and minimal scuba rig would have to be mandatory to be able get the full benefit.
If the diver in the video had just a plain tank strapped to him with one single reg he could have stayed down and covered a hell of a lot of ground. Whether the charter would have allowed such shenanigans as diving with no BC is debatable.
The only thing I'm curious about reaching that level of speed on scuba is that sometimes the purge can begin to get depressed causing the reg to self purge at high current speed. In this case something like a side purge like a Poseidon may have to be used. Also a double hose would work but I would be concerned that the larger floppy corrugated hoses on each side would rattle around too much and cause drag.

I have been a BP/W user using a Mares Avanti Quattro open heel fins. Now is finding fins that can swim faster if needed and can handle current better. Have been considering free diving fins and now is seriously looking into the Leaderfins pure carbon or Mako fins. Lucky that I find this informative and interesting post. Now decided to go the free diving fins route.

I am also very interested in upgrading my current gears to achieve a "minimalist set up" with as minimum drag and weight as possible (or as streamline as possible). Interesting to note the findings about the drag of the wing.

Will you consider a light way minimalist jacket BCD is more streamline (or has less drag) compared with a BP/W system? I am actually consider buying a new lighter BP/W with more streamline wing trying to reduce drag and weight. After noting your above finding, I am now considering a finalist light weight BCD as well.

Thanks
 
We usually hear that a BP/w has less drag than any BC. I have used both BC's and Wings and it is hard for me to tell a huge difference. I think a typical BC is often more comfortable, but a BP/W with a smaller wing would seem to be pretty minimal drag. As you seem to be receptive to looking to freediving type gear, you should also consider an elastitc (rubber) freedive belt.

I think this is most comfortable and versatile and probably more steamlined than weight integrated pockets with handles sticking out for ditching - as is common in modern weight integrated BC's.

I think I would select the fiberglass blades for scuba, they are less expensive (than carbon fiber) and the reduction in performance versus a carbon fin will be hard to detect. As I think I mentioned ealier, I have had good luck with the mako fiberglass blades and pockets.
 
I didn't read through this whole thread but they work great. A giant stride is hard on them. I have seen them break from it. I would backroll in or just fall in backwards so they don't flex up.
 
We usually hear that a BP/w has less drag than any BC. I have used both BC's and Wings and it is hard for me to tell a huge difference. I think a typical BC is often more comfortable, but a BP/W with a smaller wing would seem to be pretty minimal drag. As you seem to be receptive to looking to freediving type gear, you should also consider an elastitc (rubber) freedive belt.

I think this is most comfortable and versatile and probably more steamlined than weight integrated pockets with handles sticking out for ditching - as is common in modern weight integrated BC's.

I think I would select the fiberglass blades for scuba, they are less expensive (than carbon fiber) and the reduction in performance versus a carbon fin will be hard to detect. As I think I mentioned ealier, I have had good luck with the mako fiberglass blades and pockets.

Hi Dumpsterdiver,

Note that you have been steering toward the minimalist set up making reference to free diver set up as far as possible. The rubber weight belt is definitely a good idea. I am also going to buy low volume free diving mask. Could you share more about your set up or other suggestions? I am now crazy enough looking to change my Apeks XTX regulator sets to Mikron or Scubapro MK2 because of size and weight difference.

As for BP/W, I am now using Halcyon Single tank system. While this system is good but is a bit heavy at 9+lb with the Single Tank adaptor (STA). I also think the STA make the whole system a bit more bulky and less streamline. Therefore, I am also looking for the lightest and most streamline BP/W to replace it. Now am considering:

- DSSP Kydnes plate + Torus 17 wing
- Oxycheq travel plate (synthetic fabric) + #18 wing.
- Xdeep Ghost BCD.

Any suggestions on the above?

As for free diving fins, the fibreglass (FG) one seems to be a bit heavy compared with either plastic ones or Carbon Fibre (CF) ones. I will go either the plastic ones or the CF ones (since CF is only slightly more expensive than the FG. the saving in weight is worth the difference).

Thanks
 
I bit the bullet and got fiberglass Leaderfins. $150 including shipping. These are my 1st set of freedive fins, so I can only compare them to scuba and snorkel fins. Spent a week in Cozumel. Initially I thought they were too soft, but I changed my kick technique to straighter legs with less knee bend and pointed toes. After that change the fins came to life. They were still soft, but the speed was incredible.

I dive an Oxycheq soft backplate, DSS 17 wing. My regulator hose is routed under my right arm with a 90 degree adapter. My octo is on a necklace. My gauge is on a 24" hose clipped to my left hip. Everything is very streamlined.

I only dive warm water, frequently no wetsuit and no extra weight. I wonder if Leaderfins Pure carbons would make a noticeable improvement. They may not compare to some of the higher priced carbon fins, but at $220 shipped, they are cheaper than other manufacturers fiberglass fins.

 
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Hi Dumpsterdiver,

Note that you have been steering toward the minimalist set up making reference to free diver set up as far as possible. The rubber weight belt is definitely a good idea. I am also going to buy low volume free diving mask. Could you share more about your set up or other suggestions? I am now crazy enough looking to change my Apeks XTX regulator sets to Mikron or Scubapro MK2 because of size and weight difference.

As for BP/W, I am now using Halcyon Single tank system. While this system is good but is a bit heavy at 9+lb with the Single Tank adaptor (STA). I also think the STA make the whole system a bit more bulky and less streamline. Therefore, I am also looking for the lightest and most streamline BP/W to replace it. Now am considering:

- DSSP Kydnes plate + Torus 17 wing
- Oxycheq travel plate (synthetic fabric) + #18 wing.
- Xdeep Ghost BCD.

Any suggestions on the above?

As for free diving fins, the fibreglass (FG) one seems to be a bit heavy compared with either plastic ones or Carbon Fibre (CF) ones. I will go either the plastic ones or the CF ones (since CF is only slightly more expensive than the FG. the saving in weight is worth the difference).

Thanks

I don't know how much money you have to spend and how fanatical you are with regard to speed underwater. I doubt the regulator makes much of a difference, however i have seen some regulator configurations with a swivel and running the hose under the arm pit and then up to the mouth. Intuitively, these would seem to reduce drag by eliminating a hose on your side. I think a very small wing would help, but you need to have enough lift to dive safely and address wetsuit compression.

If we go to fanatical extremes...I am not sure what water temperature you are diving in, but the less compressible wetsuuit you wear, the less air in your BC at depth (and of course this would reduce the size of the wing you need). In my experience, freedive suits are the warmest configuration possible.. The most warmth with the thinest rubber. they do this by using the classic two piece construction, no zippers, attached hood, and smooth rubber on the inside. Honestly, this is the warmest design for a suit. You may be able to wear a 3 mm freedive suit where a 5 mm suit would be required which has zippers and a separate hood etc.

If you are in super warm water, wearing no wetsuit would almost eliminate the need to put any air in the BC wing.

If streamlining is your primary objective, I would think the smaller the tank is the better. Possibly something else to consider.

Also, you are mistaken about the weight of the fins. The inexpensive plastic blade freedive fins are going to be heavier than fiberglass blades and the CF blades will be even lighter and thinner than fiberglass. If you think nothing of several hundred for fins, this is a great option:

PURE Carbon Fiber Freedive Fins | MAKO Spearguns

Actually a killer deal for 100% CF fins.. Get soft unless you are strong and (not or) over 200 lbs.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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