Thoughts on Bounce Dives

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You can do a longer deco without doing deeper stops. Adjust your gradient factors...

In any case, I'll take the gas and do the better deco. You can always truncate a decompression schedule in an emergency.
 
KFC brags about their chicken but they wouldn't give out the formula because some dude on the internet demanded it. You can't bully someone into giving you stuff

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Did I miss a KFC advertisement this thread? I didn't bully anyone. I was simply pointing out that Dan bragged about his superior deco unobtainium deco tables without giving any of the present deco experts, which I am.not and never claimed to be, a chance to examine them.
 
Did I miss a KFC advertisement this thread? I didn't bully anyone. I was simply pointing out that Dan bragged about his superior deco unobtainium deco tables without giving any of the present deco experts, which I am.not and never claimed to be, a chance to examine them.
Bill Mee and George Irvine ( my dive buddies) and Dr Bill Hamilton, would be considered "Deco Experts. They created this set of tables, for George and JJ...and Exploration Team members diving with them on the WKPP in the late 90's.
If George or Bill wanted to share their tables with some current "expert" on Deco, that would be up to them. I would not have the right to share specifics without permission, as this is their intellectual property, and they have always been considered very dangerous to someone without a VO2 max similar to George.

Sharing the George tables here on a public forum, would be incredibly irresponsible--the wrong person could decide to try them, get bent or die, and it would be my fault for putting this out on a public forum.

You being snarky to me is the icing on the cake.... I don't know you...don't know how you dive, don't know how you would use these tables.....and after your snarky comments, I would not piss on you, if you were on fire.

Last point....If a DRY SUIT was made for you..."custom fit" to you....don't you think it could potentially work better for you than the same brand drysuit, off the rack for just anyone?....and could it not be terrible for someone else, if you were not a standard body type?
Custom tables are a very different concept than the generalized tables. They assume different on-gassing and off-gassing rates, and use different shapes to the ascent.

And who are you to demand anything from someone that does not know you?
 
I think you would have to visit and dive with Bill and I for this to be possible.....I don't want to be passing this around digitally.
And I want to know and dive with anyone I would give this to.

Dan, you've known me for 20+ years. Brian (liteheaded) and AJ are both current WKPP RB80 divers. I've dove with Brian once and will vouch for who they are.

BTW -- please give Bill my best. I miss that guy.
 
Dan, you've known me for 20+ years. Brian (liteheaded) and AJ are both current WKPP RB80 divers. I've dove with Brian once and will vouch for who they are.

BTW -- please give Bill my best. I miss that guy.

Hi Ken,
Yes I do know you, and I know you are also friends with Bill :)
I will likely see him this weekend, and discuss this....One thing that I am certain of, is that IF he was to share some George table stuff...it could NEVER be shared on Scubaboard, but would have to be only to a couple of individuals like yourself, with actual "pedigree" :)

All the fake names and , brand new posters, and pretend personas, might as well forget about being treated like real people :)

Which brings me to one of my rants about how scuba board should make all posters use real names...I am getting very sick of fake names with egos.
 
Bill Mee and George Irvine ( my dive buddies) and Dr Bill Hamilton, would be considered "Deco Experts. They created this set of tables, for George and JJ...and Exploration Team members diving with them on the WKPP in the late 90's.
If George or Bill wanted to share their tables with some current "expert" on Deco, that would be up to them. I would not have the right to share specifics without permission, as this is their intellectual property, and they have always been considered very dangerous to someone without a VO2 max similar to George.

Sharing the George tables here on a public forum, would be incredibly irresponsible--the wrong person could decide to try them, get bent or die, and it would be my fault for putting this out on a public forum.

You being snarky to me is the icing on the cake.... I don't know you...don't know how you dive, don't know how you would use these tables.....and after your snarky comments, I would not piss on you, if you were on fire.

Last point....If a DRY SUIT was made for you..."custom fit" to you....don't you think it could potentially work better for you than the same brand drysuit, off the rack for just anyone?....and could it not be terrible for someone else, if you were not a standard body type?
Custom tables are a very different concept than the generalized tables. They assume different on-gassing and off-gassing rates, and use different shapes to the ascent.

And who are you to demand anything from someone that does not know you?

Your dry suit comparison is very much a false analogy.

A custom dry suit uses very simple measurements of the human body to make a garment of the appropriate size. That process has not changed in however many hundreds and probably thousands of years people have been custom tailoring suits. It will not change much in the future. Once it is made, you can see and feel immediately the degree to which it fits. In contrast, you have no idea how well your custom tables fit you. All you know is that you didn't get bent. It is possible that you were very close on quite a few occasions, and it is possible that on those occasions an "off-the-rack" table would have done a far superior job. In fact, it is possible that the "off-the-rack" tables would have done a better job every single time. How would you know otherwise?

Next, the materials and processes that create dry suits today are far superior to those used in the 1990s, so a dry suit made today would almost certainly be superior to a custom suit made then. Similarly, our understanding of decompression theory, which is still far from complete, has progressed far beyond what we knew in the 1990s. Some of the thinking in vogue then, including WKPP thinking, has been dropped as incorrect. Under what logic could anyone assume that a process designed when our understanding of those processes was less complete and less accurate would be better than one developed with better understanding?
 
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It sounds like the "custom tables" that Dan is talking about are individually customized to the physiology of a specific individual. If so, than publishing them here would not be a good thing, for the reasons Dan mentioned above.

But something like this would, it seems to me, need to be validated, not by diving these tables, but by making specific dives and using doppler technology to ensure that microbubbles are not formed using these tables. Without some method of varifying these custom tables, the fact that the person is asymtomatic is not enough to validate these tables. Boulder John's comments should be taken to heart here, as being asymptomatic is not enough. Recent studies of even breath-hold divers (Ama) show that there are long-term effects of decompression sickness that may be asymptomatic.

Doppler detection in Ama divers of Japan. - PubMed - NCBI

Association of microparticles and neutrophil activation with decompression sickness. - PubMed - NCBI

Field validation of Tasmania's aquaculture industry bounce-diving schedules using Doppler analysis of decompression stress. - PubMed - NCBI

SeaRat

PS--I agree with Dan about using real names for these posts, and have done so from day one on ScubaBoard.
 
I've been able to figure out who is who without names and enjoy what relative anonymity a screen name gives you from wantabes,scammers,weirdos and stalkers.Then again, Google Tony Hancock to find me.

BTT,I will train guys to dive the way I do and describe it in general but likewise don't want the thought of Darwin candidates on my conscience.
You guys are talking about longer dives,I am at the other end where the topic started.
 

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