Negative buoyancy, learning to swim?

[Akimbo]

Human buoyancy is primarily a balance between lung capacity and bone density. All the other tissues are so close to the same specific gravity as water to make very little difference. You can't do anything about your bones but you can increase your lung capacity a little though exercise... probably not what you want to hear.

I don't have any reservations with negatively buoyant people swimming in a wetsuit. A wetsuit with fabric on the outside actually increases your hydrodynamic resistance, in addition to adding buoyancy. I do object to swim tests for Scuba training that allows a mask, fins, and snorkel. You can loose a mask or fin and be in trouble, possibly to the point of panic. You can't loose a wetsuit.

 

[boulderjohn]

I once taught a class that including a woman who was a beautiful swimmer--it looked effortless.

Six months before that she had taken a Discover Scuba class in Australia and nearly drowned because she was essentially a non-swimmer--much worse than you describe yourself. On the trip back to shore, as she sat sobbing over her near death experience, she vowed she would not be stopped by that. She took lessons and was very soon the beautiful, confident swimmer I saw completing her swim requirement in the pool. You will never regret taking swimming lessons.

BTW, based on my experience, I would be willing to bet that you are using what is called a bicycle kick when swimming. In that kick, your knees bend and pump up and down when you kick, the way one pedals a bicycle. Think of it as taking a canoe paddle, pointing it straight down into the water, and making it go up and down. Nothing will happen. That paddle is designed to be swept through the water, and it works much better that way. The same is true with your legs.

---------- Post added October 29th, 2015 at 09:45 AM ----------

H
I do object to swim tests for Scuba training that allows a mask, fins, and snorkel. You can loose a mask or fin and be in trouble, possibly to the point of panic.

I think that if you need to do that to pass the test, I would agree. On the other hand, I have never had any student fail the swim test, and when we have limited pool time, I hate wasting that time when I can see in a couple of strokes that the student is going to pass. I have had a number of students do the test with mask, fins, and snorkel for the simple reason that at least they are getting some instructional benefit out of that time. Lots of people have limited experience of that kind, and I have seen them improve greatly as they go. I have also been able to correct bicycle kicking issues as they go. I don't have them do it that way a lot, but I sometimes wonder why I don't. I do know instructors who do nothing but MFS swims for the swim test for that reason, and they swear that it helps speed up the scuba learning process for many.

 

[Storker]

based on my experience, I would be willing to bet that you are using what is called a bicycle kick when swimming. In that kick, your knees bend and pump up and down when you kick, the way one pedals a bicycle. Think of it as taking a canoe paddle, pointing it straight down into the water, and making it go up and down. Nothing will happen. That paddle is designed to be swept through the water, and it works much better that way. The same is true with your legs.

Based on my personal experience from learning the front crawl (many years after I learned the breaststroke), it's quite possible that the OP hardly uses their legs at all when swimming on the surface without fins. It's very easy to forget your leg kick and just flail with your arms. I still have to consciously remember to kick properly when I'm crawling if I want to get up any speed.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Based on my personal experience from learning the front crawl (many years after I learned the breaststroke), it's quite possible that the OP hardly uses their legs at all when swimming on the surface without fins. It's very easy to forget your leg kick and just flail with your arms. I still have to consciously remember to kick properly when I'm crawling if I want to get up any speed.

I agree. If I don't kick enough (or properly), my legs tend to sink.

I reiterate that a few sessions with a good swim instructor will accomplish more than on-line discussion and poring over tutorials can. You need the instructor to watch what you do and give feedback.

 

[dmaziuk]

Based on my personal experience from learning the front crawl (many years after I learned the breaststroke), it's quite possible that the OP hardly uses their legs at all when swimming on the surface without fins. It's very easy to forget your leg kick and just flail with your arms. I still have to consciously remember to kick properly when I'm crawling if I want to get up any speed.

The kick actually generates relatively little propulsion in the crawl. Most likely the OP is beating the water with his hands instead of doing the straight pull as in the actual crawling (on land); bicycle kick is just the icing on the cake.

 

[TMHeimer]

I disagree that buoyancy and swimming are unrelated. Logic says if you are negatively buoyant some of your swimming energy has to go toward keeping you afloat. Positively buoyant people put all their energy into forward motion. Just my theory--I was briefly on the HS swim team (1970, and since then didn't really swim at all until 2009) but recently got a sense that if I slowed down I'd be sinking. Anyway, taking swim lessons is the best advice. You are certainly by no means the exception. Having observed the OW 200 meter/yard swim test for 4 years now, I would say the 7 out of 10 students do not swim with a "proper" stroke, though it is rare that anyone "fails" (ie., they "gut out" the 200 meters). It is my opinion that one who can't swim with a proper stroke is crazy to take a scuba course. BUT, the statistic I mentioned says I may well be wrong. If you don't take lessons, maybe these tips from my competitive swimming brothers may help and save you time & money:

First, it seems you would be able to pass the 10 minute float test with the method you describe. Or, you can do a search on "drown proofing" (big breath, head goes under, kick arms & legs fast after a bit to surface and get another breath, etc.).

SWIMMING:
1. Don't kick too much/too fast. You get 75% of swimming power from your arms (unlike scuba, where you use your legs only-- except in odd situations. As mentioned in another post, don't "bicycle" kick--legs straight as possible, kick straight up & down, getting power from your thighs-- same whether swimming or scuba). You may only kick once or twice at most per arm cycle. Otherwise, too much/fast kicking knocks yourself out and doesn't increase speed much. Keep in mind the 200 meter swim is not timed-take it easy with proper technique. My mom was one of most proper swimmers I ever saw, but with her speed, she would never win a race.
2. Arms: When returning each arm to the front keep them as close to the water as possible. You get nothing when they're fanning air. When arms in the water pushing back, there's most of your power. Dig deep in the water and keep them close to your body, even touching your butt if you like.
3. Head/breathing: Don't lift head out to the left to breath and next time to the right, alternating. Excess energy. Chose one side to lift head to breathe and as with arms, lift your head out only as far as needed to catch a breath. Any further head height is again, more wasted energy. You may on occasion choose to skip a breath--keep your head face down in water for 2 or more arm cycles. Or not.
4. Turns: I can't do the fancy swimmer's under water flip thing, but when you get to the pool end, push off real hard for the next lap. Use the glide you create as a little "breather" between strokes.

All these tips took me from not being able to finish the divemaster 400 meter timed test to doing it in about 12-13 minutes, a decent time score. Of course, once you get your technique down you have to do a lot of fairly regular pool lap swimming to get your SWIMMING muscles up to par. Any other exercising will help a little to get into general good shape, but does little to improve your swimming.

I got most of these tips from my 72 year old brother who still swims competitively (2 or more ocean miles) and wins medals. Of course, he's done laps almost daily for over 40 years.

Personally I don't like that students can either do the 200 swim or 300 with mask/fins/snorkel. They are not related, with the 300 IMHO being way easier and doable by a "non-swimmer" who can kick. Also, it may or may not be a choice depending on the instructor--another interesting idea. But that's neither hear nor there.

 

[GoIllini]

Hi. I used to be a a Red Cross swimming instructor (WSI, Lifeguard, etc. although to be fair I'm ~ 10 years out of currency) and I agree that floating is quite hard. As a kid, I could never learn it either. Even today, when I jump in the water, I have to take a gigantic breath to avoid sinking, and even then, my face just barely peeks out of the water.

The good news is that the fact that you sink is really a compliment. It means you probably don't have a lot of adipose tissue.

Some of the other comments posted here are pretty good. I'd just recommend the following:

1.) When supine (on your back), keep a huge breath in your lungs.
2.) Back arched.
3.) Practice when the pool is calm and empty. No waves. Don't jump in either.
4.) We would always teach the flutter kick first. Point your toes down like a pencil and make small but rapid kicks, with your arms at your sides. You should not be splashing water way into the air. Don't make waves. This is also something you can practice sitting on the edge of the pool.
5.) Kicking like this gives you more support from the water, especially with an arched back. The water helps push you towards the surface. Once you get going, it gets easier.

No. It's not easy. It's fricking hard. And water is going to splash in your face. And it will get up your nose and it will hurt. But if you are very determined (or if you have really mean parents) you'll get there.

The American Red Cross might have changed its seven level system over the past 10 years, but there used to be a few different levels that emphasized different skills.

Level 1: Students learn to put their face in the water, get dunked, and blow bubbles.
Level 2: Students learn to float on their backs and on their stomachs, push off the wall doing this, and do a rudimentary front call or backstroke with their arms.
Level 3: Students learn the elementary backstroke (frog kick on your back) and how to do a sitting or kneeling dive into the water.

Maybe the secret here is that the foundation for doing a good front float or back float is being comfortable with getting dunked. And maybe the secret to being OK with getting dunked is to hold your breath most of the time in the water- and only breath when you know you're *not* going to get dunked. (BTW this will be terrible advice for scuba diving, but let's get there when we get there.)

 

[dmaziuk]

Logic says if you are negatively buoyant some of your swimming energy has to go toward keeping you afloat. Positively buoyant people put all their energy into forward motion.

... with larger part of it going into overcoming water resistance. Typically the "heavy" swimmers are slim with smaller cross-section = less drag.

2. Arms: When returning each arm to the front keep them as close to the water as possible. You get nothing when they're fanning air. When arms in the water pushing back, there's most of your power. Dig deep in the water and keep them close to your body, even touching your butt if you like.

Heh. That's what long-distance swimmers do. I was taught to swim sprints and the technique was: throw your shoulder forward. Relax the forearm as much as possible and just let it fly in a semicircle around the elbow. That naturally ends with the fingertips "stabbing" into the water, index & middle first. And then you just go from stab to pull in as close as you can to straight line towards your hip.
Breaststroke should be the easiest way for a non-swimmer to do the 200 m test. It's symmetric, it's far easier on the breathing, and it utilizes the stronger leg muscles.

 

[Bonuss]

I also sink like a stone, and even in a 3 mil wetsuit, I can easily breathe out a bit and comfortably sink to the bottom in fresh water. That said, I was a competitive swimmer through college

That's because if you "stood still" you would drown! : ) I have this same buoyancy, that is my take. I "keep moving" so I don't sink.. I did not swim competitively but I was able to get through the "lifesaving" courses to take kids to the pool when I worked with kids in the summer "back in the day". They liked to use me as the distressed swimmer... if I wanted to make it hard on them, I just exhaled.

Bob in CO

 

[Kevrumbo]

An easy non-sprinter, more efficient Freestyle/Crawl Technique, --great for recreational & facilitating distance/endurance swimming:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4

(Google search Total Immersion Swimming