Regulators Depth Limitations

[tbone1004]

you understand wrong, tanks can be used for air, nitrox, O2, trimix whatever you want as long as all of the whips going into it are O2 clean and the valve was rebuilt for O2 use, same with regulators, though the second stages don't actually have to be O2 cleaned quite as rigorously as the first stages since they are not at high pressure. Once the tank is connected to an unclean whip I wouldn't use it for O2 clean requirements, i.e. pure O2, or any partial pressure filling methods due to potential for contamination, but I'd be less concerned with the first stages, to each his own. My O2 regs are dedicated to O2 use, but the rest of them are used for pretty much everything else interchangeably and while I O2 clean them on rebuild with O2 clean parts, I don't ever worry about anything but the deco reg

 

[Remy B.]

you understand wrong, tanks can be used for air, nitrox, O2, trimix whatever you want as long as all of the whips going into it are O2 clean and the valve was rebuilt for O2 use, same with regulators, though the second stages don't actually have to be O2 cleaned quite as rigorously as the first stages since they are not at high pressure. Once the tank is connected to an unclean whip I wouldn't use it for O2 clean requirements, i.e. pure O2, or any partial pressure filling methods due to potential for contamination, but I'd be less concerned with the first stages, to each his own. My O2 regs are dedicated to O2 use, but the rest of them are used for pretty much everything else interchangeably and while I O2 clean them on rebuild with O2 clean parts, I don't ever worry about anything but the deco reg

Kind of lost you here, I understood only the part of keep your O2 regulators for O2 tanks, any how, I will keep my Titans as mains and get me O2 specific regulators or get me Apeks and convert the Titans to O2 and keep them only with O2 tanks.

where does the limit stand on the Tanks ???, less than 40% you contaminate your O2 regulators, or if I use them on Nitrox Labeled tanks ( that suppose to be O2 clean ) they still good to go, so far it does not go below 22% ???

 

[WarrenZ]

Keep in mind O2 clean is about removing hydrocarbon contamination once something is contaminated it should not be used above 40% until the contamination is cleaned out.

 

[Remy B.]

Rubber, Plastic are in the Hydrocarbon family and constituted our dive hoses and regulators, what I'm trying to say is the amount of the hydrocarbon and of course the type, that plays a very important part on the chemical stability and re-activity, there is where I see the problem that it is a TaT overrated in the regulator O2 use, but at the end you either follow the standard or you don't.

I don't know where the threshold is for chemical reactions regarding amount of reactive substances and time at low pressures and high concentrations of O2, I believe it is not that close as people may think, but since I don't know the sure number, I will follow the standards and keep my O2 reg's for that purpose only and hope that the Dive shop or Gas supplier is up to date with their filtration system and compressor maintenance.

The consequences in a Tank are more than obvious.

 

[Peter69_56]

Peter I'm not sure if I'm following you, I'm talking about the regulator O2 clean, not the Tank, I understand that once your Tank is O2 clean, you can't used for air, or if you do you have to O2 clean it again to fill it with HIgh O2 again.

You don't have the triangle of fire, I'm talking about a regulator that has been prep, with the right Seals and Lubricants for high O2 application, and there is no heat source, a pinch point where compressed gas passes thru a lower pressure chamber/area actually have a cooling effect called the JT or John Thompson effect, the oxygen will not Chemically react with the rubber of the hose to my knowledge, and your break pressure on your regulator at surface I will guess is 1.5 to 2 Atmospheres or 21.5 to 29.2 Psi Absolute, so pressure does not come in factor here, you have two things missing in the triangle of fire in this case.

Remember you are connecting the O2 prep regulator that was used previously used with air to a Oxygen clean Tank ( High O2 Deco gas ) so your source that purges the regulator at surface is a clean source, yes you can had have dirty air going previously thru your regulator but it have to be very bad stuff, I'm not saying it is impossible but very unlikely, I guess you will be tasting it if you are diving that air.

Any how all the points and interventions are valid, I think I'm rather off the idea of converting my Titan's to O2 clean and saving that money and buy O2 purpose regulators.

I prefer to go by experience. Examples on the net show that fires occur when oxygen cylinders leak. An example I recently read where instead of the one O ring (for oxygen) fitted to a medical cylinder, two were fitted causing a loss of gas at the valve (to atmosphere) and a fire ensued.

That to me is a practical demonstration of the issue. In the end, it doesn't matter why the fire occurred, in fact it did. Thus we had heat, fuel and oxygen. The oxygen was from the cylinder, the fuel was the O2 safe O ring, and the heat was???? perhaps a reaction to the O ring via throttling. In the end the reality is that it can and does happen. In this case I "suspect" that everything WAS O2 clean and yet it still burnt. Hence my comment about doing everything as right as you can to MINIMISE (note not remove totally) the risks.

I have 2 purpose manufactured O2 regs for 100%, all my other regs are O2 clean and have Viton O rings and are used from 21% to 80% oxygen. However as I previously stated, all my air is Nitrox safe. I do NOT fill from anyone else's system so as to maintain my air quality.

I know many others do not take the same care, and to date have had no issues, but my comment would simply be that "We never lost a shuttle - until the first one exploded". Their flawed logic was that although they had often damaged one O ring on launch they had always got the shuttle back to date (some 40 flights), thus no issue. We now know that was WRONG. I thus apply this to oxygen use in diving. DO it as right as you can and the risk is small. Take shortcuts, and you may (or may not) get away with it, after all what do you risk, nothing more than your life and that of others around you.

Anyway that's what I think and do, but each to their own.

 

[tbone1004]

Kind of lost you here, I understood only the part of keep your O2 regulators for O2 tanks, any how, I will keep my Titans as mains and get me O2 specific regulators or get me Apeks and convert the Titans to O2 and keep them only with O2 tanks.

where does the limit stand on the Tanks ???, less than 40% you contaminate your O2 regulators, or if I use them on Nitrox Labeled tanks ( that suppose to be O2 clean ) they still good to go, so far it does not go below 22% ???

You don't contaminate your regulators with an O2 percentage, you contaminate them with unclean gas regardless of the percentage. You can have unclean 100% O2, something is probably going to ignite, but it can happen. You can have O2 clean 21% air, most all shops that fill nitrox have only O2 clean fill whips. I.e. I can take my O2 regulator, and stick it on my backgas bottles which are currently filled with 32%, or I could go put it on the pony bottle in my car that is filled with air, and because the tanks are O2 clean as was the air that they are filled with is O2 clean. After using that regulator, I could then put it back on the O2 bottle with no ill effects and it would still be just as O2 clean as it was before, which is to say mostly O2 clean, but once you take it out of the sealed environment it's no longer fully O2 clean. If you're really curious about this, buy Oxyhackers companion and read it, it explains everything

 

[DCBC]

You should be fine with the Titan. For me the most important thing is the confidence that I have in any particular brand. When you are deep, confidence is more important than someone's technical specifications. Be safe and enjoy.

 

[Remy B.]

You don't contaminate your regulators with an O2 percentage, you contaminate them with unclean gas regardless of the percentage. You can have unclean 100% O2, something is probably going to ignite, but it can happen. You can have O2 clean 21% air, most all shops that fill nitrox have only O2 clean fill whips. I.e. I can take my O2 regulator, and stick it on my backgas bottles which are currently filled with 32%, or I could go put it on the pony bottle in my car that is filled with air, and because the tanks are O2 clean as was the air that they are filled with is O2 clean. After using that regulator, I could then put it back on the O2 bottle with no ill effects and it would still be just as O2 clean as it was before, which is to say mostly O2 clean, but once you take it out of the sealed environment it's no longer fully O2 clean. If you're really curious about this, buy Oxyhackers companion and read it, it explains everything

Thanks, now I'm following.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2015 at 03:12 PM ----------

You should be fine with the Titan. For me the most important thing is the confidence that I have in any particular brand. When you are deep, confidence is more important than someone's technical specifications. Be safe and enjoy.

That is why a choose Aqualung, they been in the market for long time, with dive legends in the background, and other brand option for me will be Apeks, I like that they can be converted to right and left hand a nice option for back doubles and they are priced reasonably.

 

[tbone1004]

oh, and for the record, here's what I use for my O2 reg....

Balance Piston Din First Stage "For Pony / Stage Bottles!" "Nitrox Ready!"
$60 USD

Genesis S.K.O. | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba
$150 new, but it was on a regulator set that I paid like $150 total for and most of the time you can get these things for basically free since no one likes them. It was sitting in a box and hadn't been used in years since it was serviced, and works perfectly fine. No need for anything much more than that for an O2 rig.

 

[halocline]

There is no practical reason for using unbalanced 1st stages as O2 regs. However, the MK2 is a good choice as an O2 1st stage because it has very very few parts, very little combustable material in the air path, no dynamic o-ring subjected to HP air, and its very easy to O2 clean. Just a small puck seat and 1 o-ring (DIN retainer) are subjected to HP air. So, if you are specifically looking for an 02 reg, a MK2 paired with a simple metal 2nd stage like the 109 would be an excellent choice.

But it hardly matters, and don't forget, you'll only be breathing high 02 blends at very shallow depth at rest, so 1st stage flow capacity and IP recovery is really not an issue. If you have regs that you like and can get them O2 cleaned, use them. If you're planning on buying new ones, consider a used MK2 and a 109 or balanced/adjustable. You're going to need to get them O2 cleaned regardless of what you buy, so there's no advantage in buying a new regulator. Just my two cents.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using titans for technical diving, they are among the highest performing regulators available, and don't forget, a few decades ago divers were doing all sorts of extreme dives on regulators most current dive shops would try to tell you weren't safe for bathtub use. By and large, if you stick to the major manufacturers and classic proven designs, they all work extremely well.