Would You Use A Ponypak
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DumpsterDiver,
From your post, it seems pretty clear to me...... the last thing you need is a PonyPak. So relax....the solution is to ignore it, instead of continually writing about it!
Re the "Patented Clips:" what you do not see (which is what happens when opinions are not based upon actually seeing or using the product).... is the bottom of the "dog clip", through which the straps are threaded, without a strap adjuster. The patented is granted in the US... and by the end of 2016, will complete the granting process in Europe, Russia, China, India, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Australia, Singapore, Canada, Indonesia, India and more.
Below is the front page of the US Patent. The Patent drawings are always the most simplified representation... They do not represent how the device is actually manufactured.
To the right is the second- substantially revised version of the center clip (used on the underside) that was filed internationally last April. If you want to look it up, the International Application Number is PCT/IB2014/061609. It is actually the world's first insert-able D-ring. You can insert a D-ring anywhere - without disassembling the harness. The loop section at the end.. is where the ITW quick releases, snap in, that connect to the bottom side of the PonyPak.
Please don't ask me how they work. We will have "real" videos in the future.
I appreciate your asking the questions you have. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
From your post, it seems pretty clear to me...... the last thing you need is a PonyPak. So relax....the solution is to ignore it, instead of continually writing about it!
Re the "Patented Clips:" what you do not see (which is what happens when opinions are not based upon actually seeing or using the product).... is the bottom of the "dog clip", through which the straps are threaded, without a strap adjuster. The patented is granted in the US... and by the end of 2016, will complete the granting process in Europe, Russia, China, India, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Australia, Singapore, Canada, Indonesia, India and more.
Below is the front page of the US Patent. The Patent drawings are always the most simplified representation... They do not represent how the device is actually manufactured.
To the right is the second- substantially revised version of the center clip (used on the underside) that was filed internationally last April. If you want to look it up, the International Application Number is PCT/IB2014/061609. It is actually the world's first insert-able D-ring. You can insert a D-ring anywhere - without disassembling the harness. The loop section at the end.. is where the ITW quick releases, snap in, that connect to the bottom side of the PonyPak.
Please don't ask me how they work. We will have "real" videos in the future.
I appreciate your asking the questions you have. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
dumpsterDiver
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Dumpster..... (May I call you by your first name?)
Thank you......I appreciate the compliment.
And I agree.....
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
Thank you......I appreciate the compliment.
And I agree.....
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
The original question was would I use a Ponypak, which I will answer first - no I would not because it does not offer anything to my style of diving, and as far as I can see is not as good as what I have available already.
I do not like the idea of the front slung setup, I dive side-mount to reduce my profile, so would not front mount a tank like that. If I do want to take a pony either when single tank back mounting or even when diving side-mount if for example I want to carry a small tank of a high O2 deco gas with my kit I have plenty of options for slinging or mounting a tank that is low profile, not going to swing around or get in the way and so on.
For someone who only ever dives recreational, single tank, BCD mounted and doesn't go into spaces where their profile really matters then I can see this offers an out of the box solution for those sorts of divers and might find a market. But I see nothing that it offers me over what I can already do with a pony, harness and various brackets I already have.
Good luck with the product - but not for me - P
I do not like the idea of the front slung setup, I dive side-mount to reduce my profile, so would not front mount a tank like that. If I do want to take a pony either when single tank back mounting or even when diving side-mount if for example I want to carry a small tank of a high O2 deco gas with my kit I have plenty of options for slinging or mounting a tank that is low profile, not going to swing around or get in the way and so on.
For someone who only ever dives recreational, single tank, BCD mounted and doesn't go into spaces where their profile really matters then I can see this offers an out of the box solution for those sorts of divers and might find a market. But I see nothing that it offers me over what I can already do with a pony, harness and various brackets I already have.
Good luck with the product - but not for me - P
So... I just stumbled across this thread.
Let me see if I have this right. In main lines the ponypak consists of two main components:
1) rigging that allows for mounting across the chest (presumably if one can mount this way then slung is also possible)
and
2) some kind of proprietary 1st stage that is permanently connected to the tank.
I've seen divers (even the odd technical one) mount a pony across the chest before when using jacket style BCD's so the rigging could be interesting for some divers if it could be bought separately from the tank. Personally I could see myself using the rigging if it was easy to mount any kind of 5L tank into it on vacations or whatever. Moreover, I think it could have some value in a training setting to be able to just clip a pony to any random BCD.... I definitely see uses for that.
As for the 1st stage/tankvalve thing... I personally see no added value to this over a traditional DIN type K valve and a compact 1st stage. Quite the contrary. I assume that service, filling, cleaning and so forth would present hassles that a commonly available regulator would not.
From the bit I'm able to get from looking at the site my conclusion would be that the rigging has potential as long as it can be ordered separately from the tank.
R..
---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 01:31 PM ----------
... on second viewing the snap hooks they used aren't the ones you would want either. A line could potentially push through the gate, although given the position when it's mounted I wouldn't estimate the risk being very high. At least they didn't use a carabiner but they could have chosen for a bolt snap instead, which is too bad....
Given the intended use it's probably not a big issue but you would want to be able to swap out those clips if for any reason you thought you might be swimming around any potential snag hazards.
R..
Let me see if I have this right. In main lines the ponypak consists of two main components:
1) rigging that allows for mounting across the chest (presumably if one can mount this way then slung is also possible)
and
2) some kind of proprietary 1st stage that is permanently connected to the tank.
I've seen divers (even the odd technical one) mount a pony across the chest before when using jacket style BCD's so the rigging could be interesting for some divers if it could be bought separately from the tank. Personally I could see myself using the rigging if it was easy to mount any kind of 5L tank into it on vacations or whatever. Moreover, I think it could have some value in a training setting to be able to just clip a pony to any random BCD.... I definitely see uses for that.
As for the 1st stage/tankvalve thing... I personally see no added value to this over a traditional DIN type K valve and a compact 1st stage. Quite the contrary. I assume that service, filling, cleaning and so forth would present hassles that a commonly available regulator would not.
From the bit I'm able to get from looking at the site my conclusion would be that the rigging has potential as long as it can be ordered separately from the tank.
R..
---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 01:31 PM ----------
... on second viewing the snap hooks they used aren't the ones you would want either. A line could potentially push through the gate, although given the position when it's mounted I wouldn't estimate the risk being very high. At least they didn't use a carabiner but they could have chosen for a bolt snap instead, which is too bad....
Given the intended use it's probably not a big issue but you would want to be able to swap out those clips if for any reason you thought you might be swimming around any potential snag hazards.
R..
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Sorry, I may have missed it, what will the PonyPak with a 19 cu ft cylinder cost? I haven't seen this thread since my post #14, "I'll stick to my 19 cu ft slung pony with its SPG on a 6 inch hose" Not that the cost is a determining factor but, many of us, have extra 1st and 2nd stage regulators that can be used for a pony. A new 19 cu ft cylinder only costs about $160.
Phil C
Thank you for you comments. PonyPak is a viable option for those divers who do not now dive redundant, which is the majority of sport divers.
It is also option for those who want to side mount or tank mount, and would like the hose clipping system it employs.
If you already dive redundant, I am pleased to hear it. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ----------
Rturner
Thank you for your comments and careful observations. In response to each numbered paragraphs.
1) PonyPak will also side-mount (and is instantly switchable in the water, from front to side and back) and is tank mountable, with a daughter-bracket (not shown on the temp website)
2) We have two versions of the integrated tank valve/first stage. Both are half the size and mass of a separate vale/1st stage, are far less likely to entangle, and may easily be filled from air station or from another tank. It has integrated pressure gauge (that can be readily by "senior" divers), but can be switched out for a larger gauge on a whip. They will be serviceable by any dive service center that services 1st stage regs. We have repair kits. The "sport" version (about the size of a black hockey puck) is suitable for common sport diving. For professional divers (seen on the diver with the FFM/19 cft tank) we have , a military grade version. It is rated to 29 deg salt, 34 deg, freshwater - is an environmentally sealed, diaphragm. It too will be readily serviceable, and fill-able from either a compressor, or another tank.
The harness will be order-able separately..
3). The snap hooks. Likelihood of catching on anything is minimal. The gate is facing firmly against the chest, 6" from the diver's mask and is not rotatable. Anything that could clip accidentally in, would more likely take out the diver's mask first. The clips are located were your arms and hands can easily resolve the issue.
The reason for the design: with thick gloves, they are far easier to declip in the event of entanglement and the diver needs to do a complete equipment ditch,
FYI - in seven years of development, detailed inspection and actual test diving by full time professional divers who dive in conditions most likely to encounter the suggested issue...they have never raised that as an issue. When seeing it for real, or actually diving the system, people decide their theoretical concerns, in reality, are no more than that: theoretical.
That said.... the clips are easily swapped out...for replacement with style you would wish.
I appreciate your comments and your time and thought into making them. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
Thank you for you comments. PonyPak is a viable option for those divers who do not now dive redundant, which is the majority of sport divers.
It is also option for those who want to side mount or tank mount, and would like the hose clipping system it employs.
If you already dive redundant, I am pleased to hear it. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ----------
Rturner
Thank you for your comments and careful observations. In response to each numbered paragraphs.
1) PonyPak will also side-mount (and is instantly switchable in the water, from front to side and back) and is tank mountable, with a daughter-bracket (not shown on the temp website)
2) We have two versions of the integrated tank valve/first stage. Both are half the size and mass of a separate vale/1st stage, are far less likely to entangle, and may easily be filled from air station or from another tank. It has integrated pressure gauge (that can be readily by "senior" divers), but can be switched out for a larger gauge on a whip. They will be serviceable by any dive service center that services 1st stage regs. We have repair kits. The "sport" version (about the size of a black hockey puck) is suitable for common sport diving. For professional divers (seen on the diver with the FFM/19 cft tank) we have , a military grade version. It is rated to 29 deg salt, 34 deg, freshwater - is an environmentally sealed, diaphragm. It too will be readily serviceable, and fill-able from either a compressor, or another tank.
The harness will be order-able separately..
3). The snap hooks. Likelihood of catching on anything is minimal. The gate is facing firmly against the chest, 6" from the diver's mask and is not rotatable. Anything that could clip accidentally in, would more likely take out the diver's mask first. The clips are located were your arms and hands can easily resolve the issue.
The reason for the design: with thick gloves, they are far easier to declip in the event of entanglement and the diver needs to do a complete equipment ditch,
FYI - in seven years of development, detailed inspection and actual test diving by full time professional divers who dive in conditions most likely to encounter the suggested issue...they have never raised that as an issue. When seeing it for real, or actually diving the system, people decide their theoretical concerns, in reality, are no more than that: theoretical.
That said.... the clips are easily swapped out...for replacement with style you would wish.
I appreciate your comments and your time and thought into making them. Thank you.
[FONT=&]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
Mark Michaud SELAUSAR
Contributor
Let me be the first to call it 
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