BCD recommendations please

[Peter Guy]

OP -- you listed a bunch of requirements for the BCD and now I'd like to ask you to:

a. Explain why you have each requirement; and
b. Rank them in importance.

Students often ask my advice as to what gear they should get and I try to get them to answer those (and other) questions so that they can them make the best (or least worst) choice for themselves. ALL gear has trade-offs so you need to understand what those are and how they fit with your wants and needs.

I, for one, am most intrigued that your wife's requirements do not include:

a. "Dive-ability" (that is, does it help or hinder my diving); and

b. Transportability (as it appears to be primarily for travel diving).

Good luck on finding the right one.

 

[Reidkon]

Thanks for the discussion everyone. A couple of you mentioned that I was likely looking for something similar to my BC and that is exactly what my wife ended up choosing. I have been diving with an Oceanic Islander 2 for our last two trips and have been happy with it. However after following this discussion the one thing lacking which I am thinking would have been a nice addition is the crotch strap, however as one of you mentioned there are always trade-offs. The Islander 2 is very comfortable and my wife who is a dive master has always commented on how much better my trim is than hers using her old Mares jacket style. My only complaint, (not really a complaint, but a comment) is the way it rides up when sitting on the surface.
The Islander 2 is actually discontinued but we lucked upon one on Amazon (Joe Diver storefront) and made the purchase last night. Hopefully she will also be satisfied with it. Bonaire in 81 days and we will find out.

 

[Crush]

So far, when I've dived with mine, I generally hook my thumbs into my waist belt to keep my hands out of the way. Am I supposed to keep them out in front of me?

The only thing you are supposed to do is dive safely, look out for your buddy and not damage the environment. I am telling you how I was taught to dive. It also allows me to eaily view my wrist-mounted comuter and compass.

The BP&W straps are not hanging loose on my body, but moving my arms forward tightens up the rig in a reassuring manner.

I have encountered no problems with using shoulder D-ring mounted flashlights.

Safe diving

-Crush

 

[decompression]

Good points Stuart, no offense taken. You think your way through and that is a positive. The plastic buckles do break and often. I see it more being in the industry. Weights, tanks, rocks and sometimes just a strong arm can break them. Correct, sometimes it's a dive ender and sometimes it's a day ender. The harness eliminates that possbity. Same idea behind spring straps, you can either pack a save a dive kit with rubber straps or eliminate the problem before it happens.
I desperately want to come and adjust your harness to see it first hand. Once adjusted, it should be comfortable and simple to get out of. When I teach scuba unit removal, I teach it mid water hovering and slide simply out of the harness.
The waist buckle, depending on type and how it's threaded should not come loose very easily. Even if it does, the crotch strap should remain on the belt. But it it does release it's affect is minor. I was more refering to weight pouches, shoulder straps and the like. Those can have a catastrophic effect.
The crotch strap looseness is preference, if you need it loose to do valve drills then so be it. I like it snug as it keeps everything where I want it.

a big point of the bpw movement is to start with the end in mind. Few open water divers go on to be advanced technical staged rebreather seal team 6 cave divers. But if the basic equipment is the same, once you've learned it it's there forever. Even something as simple as taking a deep diver course can indicate your original bcd might not be the tool of choice.

Trim position,yes your hands should be out front. This allows quick glances at your gauges, simple movements for light communication, less drag and a way of controlling your atitude in the water. Remember the videos? Knees bent, butt clenched, back arched, head up and arms out.

 

[stuartv]

Good points Stuart, no offense taken. You think your way through and that is a positive.

Thank you!

I desperately want to come and adjust your harness to see it first hand. Once adjusted, it should be comfortable and simple to get out of. When I teach scuba unit removal, I teach it mid water hovering and slide simply out of the harness.

LOL! If you get to the neighborhood, I'd be happy to have you over!

Mine is comfortable to wear. I don't "notice" it at all when I'm in the water - or even geared up and ready for entry. And I can get in and out of it with very little difficulty. I have even practiced complete removal and redonning in mid water in the pool before I dove in it the first time.

But, I am somewhat barrel chested, I guess, and have "sloping" shoulders versus "square". And DSS recommended a size Large BP for me when what I have is a size Medium. I suspect that the combination of those things contributes to having the shoulder straps way out to the sides and then disappearing quickly under my armpits. I have tweaked the fitment a number of times now, pretty much after each time I have dived in it. I think it's now fit to me pretty well. I just think my various factors result in a few things I'd like better if they were a bit different.

Trim position,yes your hands should be out front. This allows quick glances at your gauges, simple movements for light communication, less drag and a way of controlling your atitude in the water. Remember the videos? Knees bent, butt clenched, back arched, head up and arms out.

Videos? What videos? Butt clenched and back arched sounds a bit uncomfortable and tense. I have been purposely not keeping my arms out in front of me (except for when carrying a light and/or filming with my GoPro) because it seems like they are just in the way of my view. Out in front means they are always blocking my view of *something*. Next time I go, I'll have to experiment with keeping them out front to see how it affects things. In training, I often saw instructors hovering somewhat as you describe, with their hands together out in front of them. Except that they weren't out front like Superman, they were clasped together and in front, but somewhat below. That position looks reasonably comfortable and like not a big impediment to the view. But, it looks like it would be a lot more drag than having my arms straight down at my sides, thumbs hooked into waist belt to keep the arms tight into the body comfortably.

 

[decompression]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Head up, arms in front.

The videos are;

UTD essentials basic six on YouTube.

 

[stuartv]

Gotcha. That looks awkward to swim around like that. Seems like the hands would block your view of things on the bottom you would want to see. But, I'll have to try it out.

Thanks!

 

[AdivingBel]

I'm curious now, in the context of a Rec-only diver, why do people think a BP/W is preferable to a good quality back-inflate integrated BC, when you're talking about using a plastic/Kydex/Aluminum BP?

In my opinion it's a minimalist approach. I used to dive a Zeagle Stiletto and liked it. My wife started diving and I passed it to her and I went to an Express Tech. She likes the cummerbund, me not so much. She likes extra pockets, I add one to my rig if needed, but don't carry one if I don't. She likes the extra padding, I haven't found it necessary plus I don't have to sink it. My rig is a bit lighter and I can easily break it into it's component parts for packing if needed. Her's breaks down too, but it's a bit more complicated. While the Stiletto dives great (highly recommend it), the Express Tech with the basic harness (and 24# wing) really sits low profile and snug. With the saddle strap (3 point crotch strap) I stole off the Stiletto snugged up, the whole rig just feels like an extension of myself. I guess other than having something to clip stuff off to, that's my objective for warm water diving. IMHO.

For warm water rec diving, I see carrying a bit of removable weight as a benefit as it gives me flexibility to dive any combination of exposure protection and tank. I'm sure there are other ways to deal with the issue, but going up or down a couple pounds when you're not carrying much to begin with is pretty easy. IMO

 

[OMANDIVER]

I'm curious now, in the context of a Rec-only diver, why do people think a BP/W is preferable to a good quality back-inflate integrated BC, when you're talking about using a plastic/Kydex/Aluminum BP?

I use a steel BP and, in my mind, the main advantage is the weight of it. It takes weight off my belt or out of my trim pockets and distributes it pretty evenly around my back. That makes it easier to achieve good trim - or so it seems to me, anyway. It doesn't seem like it affects buoyancy - just trim. Proper buoyancy is having the right amount of weight and it doesn't matter what the weight is or how it's distributed, so I don't see an advantage to a BP/W for buoyancy - just trim. Is this correct?

So, if you use a BP/W setup that is just as light as an integrated BC, what is the real advantage to the BP/W? Again, this is for someone who is doing Rec diving only. There are obvious benefits for people who will be doing things like sometimes diving doubles or other Technical diving things. But, if a person is only going to do Rec dives while on warmwater vacations, is there really an advantage to a BP that is just as light as a good integrated BC?

no. none and i dive both stainless and aly backplates for tech, but i still use a BCD for recreational diving in warm water. Just easier for travel, has pockets etc etc. you will see a lot of tech wanabes on this site advocating BP/W for recreational diving. Personally, its just too much faffing around for a one hour recreational dive. IMHO obviously...

 

[AdivingBel]

you will see a lot of tech wanabes on this site advocating BP/W for recreational diving. Personally, its just too much faffing around for a one hour recreational dive. IMHO obviously...

Just because others have a different opinion doesn't make them "wanabes" or "faffers." You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but you don't have to be an hat about it. Unless, of course, you can't help it.