Rapture of the Deep - being narc'd

[PhatD1ver]

Okay, wife and I went to Saipan over the long Chinese holiday this past week. On day three of our dives, we went out to Naftan and did a dive where we dropped off the edge of the reef and went down to 30m/100f with our guide.

I'm still learning I admit, but I've probably go 30% of my dives that have been deep dives, I think I have a pretty good feeling for being at 25-30 meters and what being narc'd is like.

The problem with this dive was my wife, who is working on her 25th dive... as we go down to depth on the wall, our guide has leveled off at 30m just as the dive brief was given.

My wife is level at first, but then she starts going down lower and lower, I'm concerned so i go down after her, grab her arm, look her in the eyes and give her a thumbs up sign to go back up... she nods and I start to go up and she looks at me, and follows for a second and then starts down again.

I am again more concerned, this is the same woman who has told me she is frightened of deep diving and being on a wall and she is diving down into the blue. So, I go back down after her again, grab her arm, show her my computer readings at 34.7m, and again point up and kind of pull her along.. she nods and starts to follow me, but 30 seconds later is again motoring downward.

Now, I've burned 500psi chasing her, and I'm already concerned so the third time, I grab her, give her my best angry look and basically push her up and point at the dive guide and sign to her we are going LEVEL with him.

I'm convinced she was narc'd and feeling overconfident. It's also possible that at that point, I'm feeling a little more anxiety than normal at that depth, along with worrying about how to explain to my kids that Mom decided to swim off and test the depth of the Marriannes trench on her own.

We normally communicate well over dive issues when we review a dive, but she claims she doesn't remember the first two times I warned her, even though I can show her clearly on my dive watch and the printed profile that I went from 30m to 33m the first time, then back to 30m and down to 34 meters the second time, and again the 3rd time. It's all very clear... but she thinks I over-reacted.

Anyone?

And the answer is NO, she hasn't completed AOW, but she has completed deep dive knowledge review information (for what that's worth). And we won't be doing another deep dive together until she takes her AOW course in December.

 

[drbill]

Certainly sounds like she may have been narced, especially gien your statement about her fear of deep diving. I rarely experience any serious narcosis (even in the past when I routinely dove to 200 fsw on air), but the few times I've been significantly affected, my response was to immediately head up instead of down. Maybe my wiring got crossed!

 

[Tony387]

Sounds a little adventurous for as few dives as you guys have. The effects of narcosis are never to be taken lightly...no, you're not overreacting. I'm not sure an AOW cert will remedy anything here. These are basic issues that only time and experience will properly address. Be safe and have fun.

 

[PhatD1ver]

Sounds a little adventurous for as few dives as you guys have. The effects of narcosis are never to be taken lightly...no, you're not overreacting. I'm not sure an AOW cert will remedy anything here. These are basic issues that only time and experience will properly address. Be safe and have fun.

It was dive 5 with the same instructor/guide, he was pretty confident with our diving, so given the weather limitations (typhoon left the day before we arrived, one coming in 24 hours) and site limits, Naftan was one of our only choices, and a great dive, just should have made it clear to him it was going to be her deepest dive to date..

We've decided she'll get more training.

 

[Steve_C]

Just because you thought you were not narced at a given depth on one day does not mean you will not be narced at the same depth later. Especially if she does not remember if she was narced. Taking a course will not give her any narc immunity. Course will just warn her about it and tell her to stay vigilant. Personally I would not take her diving that deep again. Why not stop at 25 meters? What if you are at 30 meters, a manta swims by and you look at it for a minute or two and look back and see that she has dropped down to 38 and is starting to accelerate downward. Might not turn out so good.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't think you over-reacted, but I'm going to advise you not to be angry with her. She probably was doing her best to cope with something she wasn't prepared to cope with. I'd caution that at her level she should not be doing "bottomless" dives yet ... go give her time to practice buoyancy control someplace where there's a bottom.

Here's what I teach my students about narcosis ... this is from my AOW curriculum ...

The signs and symptoms of nitrogen narcosis have been compared to those experienced by alcohol or general anesthesia. The earliest symptoms affect brain functions such as concentration, memory and judgment. How those effects manifest themselves in the diver will depend on the individual. For example, a diver who is very confident in his or her ability might start feeling a sense of euphoria. But a diver who is not secure with their skills or surroundings may experience a sense of anxiety. In both cases, these symptoms may indirectly cause trouble … the former may lead to poor decision-making, while the latter may lead to stress.

As we continue deeper, narcosis starts to affect motor functions. Movement becomes more difficult and coordination is reduced. A diver may experience difficulty reading or interpreting the display on a dive computer or making adjustments for buoyancy control. Furthermore, the diver may develop tunnel vision or have trouble remembering things such as the agreed-upon maximum depth, no-decompression limits, or turnaround pressure. The diver may react slowly to directions or visual cues from a buddy, or make serious errors in judgment that can lead to an accident.

As the diver continues deeper still, symptoms can become even more serious … such as hallucinations or even unconsciousness. These symptoms are not common at recreational depths, and generally occur when divers go well below the depth limits imposed on recreational diving.

When you first begin to experience symptoms of narcosis … or recognize signs of it in your dive buddy … a prudent thing to do would be to stop your descent and assess your ability to continue. If you feel any anxiety or loss of control … or notice the same in your dive buddy … ascending to a shallower depth is advisable.

Some divers are more susceptible to narcosis than others. Some divers will not recognize the symptoms in themselves, or will recognize them in their dive buddy’s behavior before the dive buddy starts to feel them. Our physical and mental state can have a significant impact not only on our susceptibility to narcosis, but also on how the symptoms manifest themselves. Symptoms can vary within the same diver from dive to dive. Certain factors, however, appear to increase the effects of narcosis. These factors include:

• Inexperience, or a lack of confidence in one’s abilities
• Fatigue or exertion
• Cold water
• Rapid descent
• Poor visibility
• Carbon dioxide buildup (hypercapnia)
• Task loading

The good news is that narcosis can be managed by the diver. Ascending to a shallower depth will reduce the symptoms progressively as you ascend … or will make them go away altogether. However, since narcosis is predominantly a mental disorder, even such things as focusing on your gauges or concentrating on a task will help make the symptoms more manageable. But keep in mind that if you are narced, the chances are very good that your dive buddy will be too. So a prudent thing to do would be to signal to your buddy to ascend a little bit to reduce the effects.

There is some evidence that prolonged exposure to narcosis helps a diver to mentally adapt to its effects. Many deep air divers use the technique of making progressively deeper dives to train themselves to perform under the effects of narcosis. This technique, however, is increasingly going out of favor as divers are learning better alternatives. One of those alternatives is the use of helium mixtures to reduce the level of nitrogen in our breathing mix (and therefore the effects of narcosis). Several scuba training agencies offer classes in the use of trimix for deeper recreational diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ste Wart]

Narcosis or Bad Buoyancy. Either sound possible from the description.

 

[PhatD1ver]

Just because you thought you were not narced at a given depth on one day does not mean you will not be narced at the same depth later. Especially if she does not remember if she was narced. Taking a course will not give her any narc immunity. Course will just warn her about it and tell her to stay vigilant. Personally I would not take her diving that deep again. Why not stop at 25 meters? What if you are at 30 meters, a manta swims by and you look at it for a minute or two and look back and see that she has dropped down to 38 and is starting to accelerate downward. Might not turn out so good.

I'm not saying I wasn't narc'd myself, but because I've had high altitude training, and been thru some deep training and have at least a few deep dives at various depths down to 38m, I have a feeling for what it feels like (and low vis, dark water is a NO GO for me).. as for my wife, in some ways I agree, but after 30 years of marriage, the more she dives, and gains confidence, the more she is 'uncontrollable'.. and since she hates me being 'right', the only answer is to have someone with more experience and who is a 'diving authority figure' help her understand the same stuff I'm telling her.

That's why I've provided some more information on NN to her, and we've had a couple more discussions that part of being a good buddy is to watch for unusual behavior in your buddy. She now recognizes that was what I was doing. But she still wants to get more training and might get her DEEP DIVER specialty just to feel better about it.

The key is that when I got my deep dive training, my instructor helped me recognize that things (my brain) change at 30m even if I think I feel fine (which I did)... but thru a couple of drills, he showed me that my brain was working double time with the extra N2 in my system. She needs that, she needs some good solid deep dive training with an instructor that can show her the effects.

The other thing that we learned from the dive was that since she is partially deaf, she doesn't hear all the dive briefing, and when I repeated it back, I evidently didn't give her the max depth (I think I did, she wasn't listening by that point)... so, in the future, she is going to bring her old hearing aid and use it for the dive briefing, then put them in the dry box.

The great thing is that she is enjoying diving more and more, and that allows me to enjoy it, when I'm not tiring myself out 'tending a 3-year old' at 30m

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not saying I wasn't narc'd myself, but because I've had high altitude training, and been thru some deep training and have at least a few deep dives at various depths down to 38m, I have a feeling for what it feels like (and low vis, dark water is a NO GO for me).. as for my wife, in some ways I agree, but after 30 years of marriage, the more she dives, and gains confidence, the more she is 'uncontrollable'.. and since she hates me being 'right', the only answer is to have someone with more experience and who is a 'diving authority figure' help her understand the same stuff I'm telling her.

That's human nature. I've been dealing with that with my SO ever since we both learned how to dive. Even after becoming an instructor, I'll let some other instructor do her classes ... because if he tells her something she'll take it as sage advice, whereas if I tell her the exact same thing she'll take it as me telling her what to do.

When I was a ski instructor, part of instructor training included the admonition not to try teaching a family member ... let a neutral party do it ... for the same reason ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PhatD1ver]

Thanks for this, it's more good information to pass on to her.. and of course I appreciated reading it

---------- Post added October 9th, 2014 at 11:30 PM ----------

her buoyancy has really improved in the last 10 dives, her trim and buoyancy now are pretty amazing... in this case, she was just swimming down, and the main reason I was concerned with it, was that there wasn't anything good to look at deeper, and she just seem like she was on a mission to go deeper