What Would You Do?

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Nirvana,
Extremely well put, sensible and constructive answer. Thank you for putting into words what I would have liked to say.
 
I see the previous group of maybe 4-5 divers with two of the younger members (late teens, early twenties) literally thrashing around in the water, playing American football with a large pincushion starfish

I'm not condoning their actions, but horseplay from a group of 20 somethings is not even worth getting worked up over.

The kids on island here (8 and under) run around two fisted on the beach here squirting each other with cucumbers. No one gets worked up over this.

Natural water guns.

Beano hit the nail on the head regarding the fishing between dive spots. What you might consider uncouth is part of the local lifestyles. It's not fishing for fun, its fishing for dinner.

If Guam (which by regional standards, is "highly developed") shocks you, try working your way out a bit to the rest of Micronesia. Whats socially unacceptable to you (eating turtles and giant clams for instance) is part of the local culture.

Out further, you'll find that most of the local deckhands/crew couldn't afford to take the summer off, fly somewhere to go diving every year. Socioeconomic conditions differ.


In another instance we saw a Japanese dive guide working on the boat with two customers. I guess they were over-weighted as we witnessed them literally standing on several sections of coral reef while he took their souvenir underwater photo.

Bad diving/divers...no one wants to see it. You're gonna get this with newbie vacation divers decked out in rental gear. A bad combination of inexperience and lack of familiarity with their gear.

Good diving to you!
C
 
I'm not condoning their actions, but horseplay from a group of 20 somethings is not even worth getting worked up over.
They were unnecessarily harming sea life, damaging coral, and generally creating an unsafe nuisance on a training dive. My initial reaction when I first saw the thrashing around out of the corner of my eye was that someone was in genuine trouble or having a panic attack, that's what got my attention but as soon as I realized what was going on, I had a split second rush of anger. Just plain stupidity.


The kids on island here (8 and under) run around two fisted on the beach here squirting each other with cucumbers. No one gets worked up over this.
Natural water guns.
Sorry but I don't see how this is relevant in this context as they are not trained divers. Hopefully those that know better will educate them to respect nature a little better as they grow up.


Beano hit the nail on the head regarding the fishing between dive spots. What you might consider uncouth is part of the local lifestyles. It's not fishing for fun, its fishing for dinner.
May be so, but as a passenger on a dive boat who has payed to see wildlife in the natural environment, this is not something I want to see. If I wanted to absorb the local fishing culture, I would spend a day on a fishing boat.
Imagine if you payed to go on an African safari and at the end of the day, your guides shot a rhino or an elephant? Much the same thing really.


If Guam (which by regional standards, is "highly developed") shocks you, try working your way out a bit to the rest of Micronesia. Whats socially unacceptable to you (eating turtles and giant clams for instance) is part of the local culture.

Out further, you'll find that most of the local deckhands/crew couldn't afford to take the summer off, fly somewhere to go diving every year. Socioeconomic conditions differ.
I'm not arguing against local culture. But on these dive tour boats, many, if not all of these people only have a job because there ARE people who can afford to take the summer off, fly somewhere to go diving every year but they will only do so if the reefs are good enough to justify it. They let their reef quality go down, then eventually they lose most of their income from tourist divers so surely it is within their own interests to help preserve their local assets.


Bad diving/divers...no one wants to see it. You're gonna get this with newbie vacation divers decked out in rental gear. A bad combination of inexperience and lack of familiarity with their gear.
I don't see this an an excuse. My daughter and I are still very much newbies, we have just completed our 40th dive in our 4th season of diving since we are only able to dive on vacation - and we were in rental gear. Now, I can't claim to be 100% innocent of bumping coral occasionally but we always make every effort to be considerate to the environment. It is not so much a matter of skill levels but proper education and attitude.
My main beef is with their dive guide who in theory at least should know better, and again, once the reef is trampled into gravel, he and his colleagues will be out of a job.
 
That's what spearguns are for.
 
The ocean is far too big to really care about whether divers bang into a few coral heads, or whether some people treat living things as playthings in front of you. It's messing with your view, and just because you have managed to finally avoid kicking coral yourself does not mean other don't get to make the same mistakes now that you have finally managed to stop doing so.

Trust me, there are lots of places where the coral is pristine in the Pacific because we won't take any of you people there. We will take slings and spearguns there, though. Absolutely.

I'm not arguing against local culture.

Yes you are exactly arguing against local culture. You are completely missing the point if you eat fish that you do not catch yourself. It is only a colonizer's hubris that allows you to you try and make trouble for people who do catch their dinners in front of their better bred masters. You are part of a commercial food machine that does do permanent damage to the very ocean environment you are helcoptering in to look at. Island dwellers are just doing what people who actually live with the ocean do: interact with it on a (hopefully) sustainable basis.

You want people living in a place you simply do not understand, and could not live in, to behave the way you want them to, apparently because you have not thought out the damage that your back-home lifestyle does to the earth and our very Pacific oceans. And because you think you have the wisdom that we silly island people just do not have. Trust me, we do get to hear you, and those just like you, all the time. It sounds no less haughty this time than it ever has.

Granted, Japan is so much better than the US in terms of reducing waste and recycling, and using human powered transportation and public transportation that this would be better aimed at someone not coming from Japan.

None the less, you are asking that people not catch their own food while the boat is actually running from place to place simply so you don't have to see it. That mindset, ( that "fill in the blank with an adjective that emphasizes self-centered shortsidedness" mindset), says that as long as the environmental degradation from commercial fishing is out of view it is A-OK (since you do eat fish). But when people do the completely environmentally invisible thing of throwing a line off an already moving boat that you are on for no other reason than to go diving they are somehow offending your sense of, what? Propriety? Entitlement? Colonial power?

The only people on that boat doing anything environmentally slightly defensible are the ones fishing off of it. It is the commercial fishing done now by the colonial powers, and the damage from those colonial wars for island possessions that the colonial powers fought in the Pacific that caused and continues to cause the scarcity of the fish populations.

Go ahead and read about Potemkin Villages. Think about what you are asking for. Not change in how you take from our oceans, but for simply the things to be hid from your view.

The arrogance of the colonial mindset is rarely as clearly stated as you have done so when you emphasize that these locals will not be getting more of your money unless they build sufficiently pretty Potemkin Villages to entice you back. Please take some time to read up on sovereignty issues, particulary in the overall former Trust Territories of the Pacific (all of Micronesia including Guam), where the US has acted abominably, and before them the Japanese, and before them the Spanish. Mix in some French and German for the full European flavor. The story you don't apparently realize you are repeating could just as easily be restated as any island former colonial possession of any Empire 'wasted' on those that live there.

It's always rather breathtaking to hear that colonizers are just simply unaware of who and what they are. It is the system, always and ever, that overpowers and destroys. Not any individual actions. Asking that the "unpleasantness" be hid from you is pretty much all an islander has to hear to know where you are coming from.

The Pacific Gyre was not produced by any Pacific Islander. None of the various wars fought to colonize the Pacific Islands were fought by Pacific Islanders.
 
I wouldn't do anything. I agree with R-balljunkie and beanojones.
Plus, I'd figure it wasn't my place to intervene and there are bigger environmental problems to solve.
 
@beano, whew.

Let me put my socks back on.....wow.


.....Sorry but I don't see how this is relevant in this context as they are not trained divers. Hopefully those that know better will educate them to respect nature a little better as they grow up.

Perhaps the local island kids (my son included) here can teach you a thing or two....feel free to stop by sometime, 3rd coconut tree on right :)
 
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