Help me improve my flutter kick please

[TSandM]

The straight leg flutter kick is highly dependent on the gluteal muscles and the hamstrings, as well as the hip flexors. Very little that one would do on land trains for hip flexion and extension with a straight leg and against resistance, and the mechanical advantage of the muscles for doing that is poor. It's a kick that requires a lot of leg strength to do with power, and it's my personal belief that the use of that kick is responsible for a lot of the focus in training on cramp removal

The frog kick is a much more efficient kick in still water, because it utilizes muscle groups that you are accustomed to using, where the muscles have good mechanical advantage across the joints. However, the glide phase of the frog kick makes it less advisable against flow or current.

In those situations, the cave diver type flutter kick, with the bent knee, is a better kick, because it provides propulsion throughout the entire kick cycle. In addition, flexing and extending the knee utilizes the hamstrings and quadriceps muscles across the knee joint, where they have excellent mechanical advantage, and these are muscles most of us have some strength in, simple from activities of daily living.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm with TSandM.

That said, there are a few variations of the flutter that are very useful so I think it's worthwhile to learn.

 

[Diver0001]

Woah!!! blast from the past. Where you been?

R..

 

[MikeFerrara]

Woah!!! blast from the past. Where you been?

R..

Long story but I haven't been diving in a while so I sort of stopped talking diving too.

 

[Diver0001]

Well nice to see you. Are you back to diving?

R..

 

[diver 85]

I do not understand why you would think a single frog kick is inferior to a flutter kick...I only frog kick, have only frog kicked...I can probably outmove most divers in the water with my frog kick.

Flutter kicking is a waste of energy and ruins the enjoyment of the dive for anyone else in the water with you.

Wait till you develop chronic back problems/pain & you'll change to something else--?maybe an UW scooter........

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well nice to see you. Are you back to diving?

R..

Good to see you too but I haven't been diving in a while.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

OP, you asked about the roll when you flutter, and yes that's pretty normal. That's another great reason to do frog instead of flutter, as it's a more stable and balanced kick. With flutter, you're likely stronger in one direction than the other (down stroke vs. up stroke) and so that imbalance can cause a roll. With frog, you apply power from both legs simultaneously, all in a backward direction, so you're moire stable.

I also use frog in current and haven't had issues. You just don't get much of a glide, but you can continuously kick frog just like you do flutter in a current.

 

[crabbyfiddler]

It sounds like you may have an alignment issue with your pelvis/spine, which is not unusual. A little hip roll is fine. What is MORE important is the stretch in your ankle. The most propulsion (as flutter kicks go) comes from being able to stretch slightly beyond 90 degrees in the ankle/foot. That allows the fin to move more water. If your ankles won't stretch well, you have less.

I get much more out of a modified frog kick, and conserve energy, than i do a constant slow large flutter. I alternate sometimes just because variety is the spice of life, or I need a little stretch , whatever. But if I need to haul *ss, I do a narrow leg, mostly ankle propelled power flutter. It's like a sprint, not for long distance.

Try some swimmer ankle stretches, and just observe the way your body feels next time you are in the water. Enjoy.

 

[Diver0001]

Good to see you too but I haven't been diving in a while.

Well clearly you'll need a scuba review then

I'll be happy to do yours.

R..

---------- Post added June 25th, 2014 at 03:20 AM ----------

Hi R - I don't have any vids at the moment unfortunately. I had the bicycle kick problem and have corrected that. No pulling-the-foot up problem. Yes, I do have high frequency jiggling kicks with short stroke length… I will try to slow down but as I mentioned, forcing a bigger amplitude/stroke length tires me out real quick.

---------- Post added June 23rd, 2014 at 01:46 PM ----------



Yes, knees straight and legs stretched out.

I also noticed that my hip tends to roll a little as I flutter kick… is that normal or am i doing it all wrong?

The hip isn't the problem here. the roll almost always comes from the upper body (shoulders). The hips are following unless they're somehow disjointed. (one always turns the other)

So... In my mind, if you want to fix rolling hips then you normally need focus on what the shoulders are doing.

I bet if I had you in the pool that I could more or less fix your problem in an hour (based on what you said about it).

The problem you have is finding someone local who can fix it. From what you've said I'm going to guess that your upper body is fairly mobile when you should be focused on keeping it (relatively) still. Your kick is inefficient (jiggling from the knees) when you should be learning how to kick from the hips without whatever it is that you think is "too much effort". Your "ah ha" moment will come when you start to believe that kicks from the hip are *not* "too hard" for someone of your size. It's a matter of technique. Once you believe that there is an element of technique then you'll learn it quickly.

Learning a new kick isn't necessary. It won't hurt if you can absorb the idea but first learning how to make *any* kick efficiently from a neutrally buoyant position would help.

If it were me, this is how I would approach it. From your part it would be necessary to believe that what you're learning isn't "too hard" for someone who isn't that strong.

R..