How many second stages when diving with a pony?

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Check out Chapter 6, page 82, paragraph 3 of the SDI manual. Your answer is there with the reasons - don't need it, it's an extra failure point, it creates extra drag. I'll add one of my own - if you do happen to be diving with a buddy who goes OOA it's confusing to have three options for him to grab.

I moved my octo from my 1st stage, got a bright yellow hose and octo holder and put it right where it would be expected. I discuss & practice deployment with any buddy I happen to dive with before the dive. Pony is always on/valve open so nothing to do but grab and breathe. My primary 2nd stage hose is way too short to give up. We would be nose to nose plus I can hand off the pony and we can ascend together but not tethered.

Just to be a PITA,

1) Although it is an additional failure point, since it is run in parallel this is mitigated depending on the failure mode.
2) The extra drag is so small as to be unmeasurable, its a non-issue.
3) Proper procedure is YOU offer your 2nd to the LOG/OOG buddy after he signals, no reason for confusion with a trained buddy.
4) If the OOG buddy is in full panic or newbie, he will just grab what he sees first, he won't have time to be confused.

I am back to there is not a compelling reason you must use either method, both work.

 

[scubadada]

I usually just leave the reg on my main tank the way I normally dive it, with two second stages ... more out of convenience than practicality. Many divers I know who routinely dive with a pony only have one second-stage reg on their main cylinder.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Same with me

 

[victor]

Thanks lots of food for thought.
Since nearly all my dives are warm water, flying is essential at present (maybe not in the near future).
I have a pony (steel) for training so I suopose then next issue will be how to sling it such that it does not interfere with my movement when I am taking photo's yet is immediatly available when required.

I think I will stick with my long hose primary, shared experience states that a panicky OOA diver is going to take the octo they can see is working, e.g. the one in my mouth.
In some ways going back to an Air 2 or equivalent is tempting but the issues with getting them serviced and the non standard LP hose probably kills that idea.
My original training (early 70's) included breathing off a freeflowing reg, thus using my wing inflator as a reg would be ok with a little practise. You don't need to have it in your mouth just press both buttons and hold under an open mouth. The task loading would be pretty high so I am not sure I could do much else.
Oh well more reading and start looking for an instructor in the South/Midlands of the UK.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Thanks lots of food for thought.
Since nearly all my dives are warm water, flying is essential at present (maybe not in the near future).
I have a pony (steel) for training so I suopose then next issue will be how to sling it such that it does not interfere with my movement when I am taking photo's yet is immediatly available when required.

I think I will stick with my long hose primary, shared experience states that a panicky OOA diver is going to take the octo they can see is working, e.g. the one in my mouth.
In some ways going back to an Air 2 or equivalent is tempting but the issues with getting them serviced and the non standard LP hose probably kills that idea.
My original training (early 70's) included breathing off a freeflowing reg, thus using my wing inflator as a reg would be ok with a little practise. You don't need to have it in your mouth just press both buttons and hold under an open mouth. The task loading would be pretty high so I am not sure I could do much else.
Oh well more reading and start looking for an instructor in the South/Midlands of the UK.

One of the issues with breathing off the inflator is you have a high flow rate. Lots of wasted air (when you are already tapping into reserves) on top if supporting 2 divers on a single 1st stage, which can lead to freeze flows in cold water. Its a neat trick and might help get you situated, but its close to a quote by another poster "I would suck air out of a donkey's ass if needed at depth".

 

[Kharon]

1) Although it is an additional failure point, since it is run in parallel this is mitigated depending on the failure mode.
2) The extra drag is so small as to be unmeasurable, its a non-issue.
3) Proper procedure is YOU offer your 2nd to the LOG/OOG buddy after he signals, no reason for confusion with a trained buddy.
4) If the OOG buddy is in full panic or newbie, he will just grab what he sees first, he won't have time to be confused.

I am back to there is not a compelling reason you must use either method, both work.

Not a pita at all. I agree with you re. 1 & 2, though if hanging loose the octo could be a snagging hazzard. The real reason I favor not having it is it is absolutely unnecessary and so one less thing to deal with in my setup. Also the reason I ditched buddy diving and dive almost exclusively solo - LOL - so 3 & 4 aren't an issue for me.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Not a pita at all. I agree with you re. 1 & 2, though if hanging loose the octo could be a snagging hazzard. The real reason I favor not having it is it is absolutely unnecessary and so one less thing to deal with in my setup. Also the reason I ditched buddy diving and dive almost exclusively solo - LOL - so 3 & 4 aren't an issue for me.

Kharon agree with what you are saying - however I did have one experience with an OOA diver. Not my buddy but part of the group I was with - she dove in and tried to grab my reg - back in the day when tropical diving did not have octo's. I backed up gave her the out of air signal and she violently agreed. So we did the old style buddy breath sharing a single 2nd stage at 80 feet till we found the DM. So even solo you never know when an unwanted/unanticipated Buddy may show up...

 

[Druid]

A divemaster on Peace dive boat helped me set-up my pony bottle rig. He said: "the octo is for the other diver, and your pony rig is for you and only you!"

I have dived with that rule since.

That was my thinking too. Pony is an acronym,

Piss
Off
Not
Yours



I used a normal rec rig with an octo in the triangle, and my black pony reg bungeed under my chin. If another diver asked for gas then I would give them my octo. If they just took a reg it was likely to be the octo, in which case there was no problem, or my primary, in which case I would use the reg under my chin.

I dived with someone recently who used two regs on his main cylinder and two on the pony, with two SPGs, there were hoses everywhere.

 

[markmud]

Thanks lots of food for thought.
Since nearly all my dives are warm water, flying is essential at present (maybe not in the near future).
I have a pony (steel) for training so I suopose then next issue will be how to sling it such that it does not interfere with my movement when I am taking photo's yet is immediatly available when required.

I think I will stick with my long hose primary, shared experience states that a panicky OOA diver is going to take the octo they can see is working, e.g. the one in my mouth.
In some ways going back to an Air 2 or equivalent is tempting but the issues with getting them serviced and the non standard LP hose probably kills that idea.
My original training (early 70's) included breathing off a freeflowing reg, thus using my wing inflator as a reg would be ok with a little practise. You don't need to have it in your mouth just press both buttons and hold under an open mouth. The task loading would be pretty high so I am not sure I could do much else.
Oh well more reading and start looking for an instructor in the South/Midlands of the UK.

Hey Victor,

My Ponies fly. My small pony has many thousands of miles on it. I uncork it and stuff the bottle in my checked bag while the valve flies in my regulator carry-on bag.

My newest phrase thanks to Druid: Piss Off, Not Yours!

markm

 

[jscan1]

My normal configuration, is a spg, a second stage, and drysuit hose , then a pony with a button spg and a second stage on a necklace under my chin. I dropped off my main rig on Tuesday for service, and last night I borrowed my dive buddies back up, that was equipped with a gauge, a second stage an octo, and drysuit hose! Thank god I didn't bring my camera! Felt like I had enough air sources hanging off me for a small army! I can't imagine diving with this setup regularly! For me the redundancy via the pony is plenty. I'll donate my primary, and use my pony. I think all the extra would just make me inefficient if I had to donate, or dump weights , or shoot a smb , etc. I'm glad I got a chance to try his setup though! Really shows how good it is to get used to our own stuff, so you know where everything is, and how it functions.

 

[DaleC]

"the octo is for the other diver, and your pony rig is for you and only you!"

I have dived with that rule since.

I'm curious about that statement. Why?
A pony is just a tank with some gas in. Who cares who breathes it. I can understand why someone might have a donation priority, octo before pony, but if someone needed air I can't think why I would differentiate and call some mine and some yours.

A proper gas plan has reserve volume in both the pony and the main tank. At the worst possible moment (max depth/max duration) you should have enough gas in either for ascent so who breathes what shouldn't really matter should it.

What's the rationale?