C-Card Recognition: Myth or Fact?

Were you ever denied a service or boat ride based upon C-card brand?

  • Yes, I have been denied a service or trip based upon brand.

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • No, I have never been denied a service or trip based upon brand.

    Votes: 28 16.4%
  • I have never had problems based upon brand, but had problems based upon the rating on the card.

    Votes: 11 6.4%
  • I have never had any problems having a C-card accepted.

    Votes: 127 74.3%

  • Total voters
    171
  • Poll closed .

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I have a PADI DM card, so I don't have problems getting my card recognised. I am also a member of an SAA club, a UK based agency. Several members of the club have reported that foreign dive centres have failed to recognise their qualifications and refused to let them dive - France and Egypt are the most common culprits.

UK charter boats never ask for c-cards. If you book the dive you're assumed to be capable of carrying it out. Very few skippers are divers and they do not act as dive marshalls/supervisors.
 
France and Egypte being the mosot common culprits probably has to do with that being the most common destinations for UK divers as well...
 
So what is a "legitimate" agency? Let's compare two agencies.

Let's start with Scuba Divers of America (SDA). This is an Arizona-based agency. Although the name is not visible on this site, it is the same organization. I believe anyone who checks them out will agree it is a scam. If you read through the materials carefully and check out the claims, you will find it is a complete fraud. It says its world-wide referral form is accepted by all agencies, including PADI, but if you go to the PADI site you will find a clear statement that they do not recognize any training done by this organization. Check out the agency address on Google Earth (as I did a few years ago), and you will find it is a vacant lot. The agency and its related organizations were created by the owner after he was kicked out of NAUI. With nowhere else to go, he created his own agency. With all of its fraudulent claims, the company he formed to do the instruction still has a B+ rating with the Better Business Bureau, and people "duped" into taking their online nitrox course report that their cards are accepted for nitrox fills.

Now let's look at UTD. I think everyone would agree that this is a very legitimate agency, but its origin sounds a whole lot like the origin of Scuba Divers of America. Its owner was a part of the GUE leadership until they had a falling out. He was then a part of NAUI leadership until they had a falling out. He then formed his own agency, just as SDA did. UTD is certifying divers around the world. People are paying a lot of money for that certification, and I assume its graduates have their cards recognized without difficulty. (I have a number of cards from them, but I have never had to show them for anything.)

So what's the difference? I know that UTD is insured, and to get insured as a scuba training agency, UTD had to have its standards reviewed and accepted by the insurance agency. I doubt if SDA has done this, but I can't be sure. SDA says its standards are consistent with the RSTC standards, and if they are, they should have no trouble getting insurance--if they are willing to pay the premiums.

But is being insured the only barrier to legitimacy? I honestly have no idea. I am in fact baffled as to why SDA continues to perpetrate a fraud when it would apparently be very easy to become legitimate.

If I decide this afternoon to form a scuba agency, come up with a new name, copy some established agency's standards, and buy a card-making machine, how would I be any different from any other agency listed on the Wikipedia page? Does anyone know the difference, because I clearly don't?

Apparently if you're a NAUI instructor who also wants to be a UTD instructor, and you're insured through NAUI's insurance program (a third-party insurer), you will not be covered as a UTD instructor ... even though the policy stipulates that it covers you if you're teaching through other recognized agencies. I guess the secret language there is "recognized" ... by whom? Apparently the PTB at NAUI have decided that UTD isn't "legitimate" ... and that's good enough for the insurance company.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added March 23rd, 2014 at 11:26 AM ----------

Now you need a card to carry a camera, another card to identify a fish, yet another card to wear a drysuit, a scooter card, a bouyancy card, a snorkel card and I suppose there is a nude diver card.

No you don't ... I've carried a camera all over the world, identified fish (poorly, for the most part), have over 3000 dives in a drysuit, hundreds with a scooter, rarely wear a snorkel, and you really don't want to see me diving nude ... and I don't have a card for any of those things. Most places that rent drysuits won't rent you one if you don't have a c-card showing you are trained in its use ... but blame the lawyers for that one, not the agencies. But, as with all other scuba equipment, you can buy a drysuit without a c-card from anyone.

Interestingly, I've issued dozens of drysuit cards ... and I've never owned one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Apparently if you're a NAUI instructor who also wants to be a UTD instructor, and you're insured through NAUI's insurance program (a third-party insurer), you will not be covered as a UTD instructor ... even though the policy stipulates that it covers you if you're teaching through other recognized agencies. I guess the secret language there is "recognized" ... by whom? Apparently the PTB at NAUI have decided that UTD isn't "legitimate" ... and that's good enough for the insurance company.

Very interesting. I wonder how they determined that.
 
Very interesting. I wonder how they determined that.

I could tell you ... but it would only make you shake your head in disbelief (I'm still having trouble believing it) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
France and Egypte being the mosot common culprits probably has to do with that being the most common destinations for UK divers as well...

You'd think that if they see a lot of UK divers they would be familiar with the 3rd largest UK agency, wouldn't you?

:)
 
You'd think that if they see a lot of UK divers they would be familiar with the 3rd largest UK agency, wouldn't you?

:)
Its not IF they see a lot of UK divers, its BECAUSE they see a lot of UK divers.. SAA according to themselves is an association of independent dive CLUBS though, which might be the issue. Id think most red sea ops would recognize (some infact also certify for) BSAC for instance. Then again, there is another large population of divers going to the red sea and thats eastern european, mostly russian and the ops mainly catering to those guests may have limited or no experience (or interest) with UK organizations and divers...
 
There is surely a reason that the rest of nature disowned humankind, not just a silly apple, now I understand.

N
 
I have a PADI DM card, so I don't have problems getting my card recognised. I am also a member of an SAA club, a UK based agency. Several members of the club have reported that foreign dive centres have failed to recognise their qualifications and refused to let them dive - France and Egypt are the most common culprits.

UK charter boats never ask for c-cards. If you book the dive you're assumed to be capable of carrying it out. Very few skippers are divers and they do not act as dive marshalls/supervisors.

Interesting. Aren't the Skippers concerned about an unqualified person suing them if there is an incident? An interesting idea-- assuming someone is a capable diver if they go out on a boat. Then again, logic says anyone taking an OW course obviously knows how to swim and has been in water over their head before--no need for wasting time on a "swim" test. But that's only logic, not what today's society needs.
 

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