gear for a new diver?

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Greetings! Now, where shall I start?

By admitting you know little about diving but like to see your comments online. So readers should disregard every word you say.


Hmmmm....Seems like a good place to begin is by suggesting that you refrain from using sexist terms such as "old wives tales" (improperly punctuated).

Since when is the term, "old wives' tales" (properly punctuated) sexist? If true, you should tell the Huffington Post and Reader's Digest among others.

Secondly, I wonder what data you have that indicates divers do not contract diseases when using rental gear. Has the AMA or WHO done such a study?

I don't have any data, but I am not the one making assertions about the unhealthiness of used / rental gear. The WHO or the AMA may not have done such a study because there is no evidence of medical problems using rental gear.

The person making the claim needs the evidence to back up his claim. I guess you must have skipped the philosophy of science lecture during your doctoral training at Yale. Perhaps you should have went to Harvard instead.


Thirdly, the note I wrote about Sherwood regs was a lament that they no longer made side venting Oasis regs. Of course, since you are a fan of purchasing used gear, it should have been a delight to you since you could now begin your search for a vintage Sherwood Oasis. I have four of them in perfect nick, but, sadly, none are for sale. Keep looking.

I own / have owned Sherwood Regulators and have moved on to better performing gear such as Scubapro and Apeks, so I have no desire for your "side venting" regs. I have a few vintage (actually older than yours) Sherwoods: Magnum II, Oasis, and even a top of the line Maximus that I acquired when I first started diving. I can check if they side-vent (have a wide exhaust T) if you are interested. BTW, the mouthpieces on a second stage are removable so you can change them if you want. You can buy a new one for a few dollars at any dive store.

Fourthly, I am a doctor--at least that is the title conferred upon me by "PRAESES ET SOCII, UNIVERSITATIS YALENSIS" (Yale diplomas were done in Latin at the time of my graduation.).

Did you graduate with a degree in medicine from Yale Medical School? If not, I fail to see the relevance. Also I see no relevance that you graduated so long ago that your diploma is written in Latin.


Fifthly, I am sorry my sense of humor was lost on you: I'm told it grows on one with time---sorta like bacteria. Hang in there: you'll get it.

What you call humor I call ignorance. You are spouting off nonsense to new divers and I called you on it. Instead of acknowledging you have no data to back up your assertions you becoming insulting.

Sixthly, I did note, in my original comments that "...I will be pilloried and drummed from the Board for making such outrageous suggestions...". Aren't you impressed with my ability to predict the future? My stockbroker is!

If you are so good at picking stocks then maybe you should post on a finance board.

And, finally, I have some experience with the way dive ops cleanse their gear apres diving. Most give regs, wetsuits, fins, etc. a post-dive dunk in fresh water and hang them to dry overnight.

The Dive Ops I used and the dive club I used to belong to were more meticulous when cleaning their equipment. They do much more than give equipment a quick dunk and then hang it up.

Hi,

Okay, here goes the "beating the dead horse" routine....

In my youth I discovered a hero who continues to this day to be a hero. Perhaps you have heard of him: Albert Einstein. He had this wonderful notion of creating what he called "Gedanken Experiments". This delightful mixing of German and English was used to described a technique in which he created a mental experiment that could test an issue without having to do the actual experiment--remember Einstein was a Theoretical Physicist and probably took no joy in smudging his hands in the lab.

So, let me suggest a couple of Gedanken Experiments for you with regard to hygiene:

(1) Reg mouthpiece related---consider whether you would like to brush your teeth with a toothbrush used by a stranger and merely rinsed off using a bucket of "fresh water" that also was used to soak 5 other toothbrushes used by strangers.

(2) Wetsuit related---consider being asked to wear some underwear that had been worn by a stranger--maybe many strangers--that had only been rinsed off in a tank of "fresh water" that had been used to rinse off lots of other underwear.

'nough said...

joewr

Einstein performed these mental experiments because there was no way he could test his hypothesis given the technology of the time (He died in 1955). Physicists are still trying to test some of his hypothesis and probably will be for the next 100 years. It is a shame the man did not live in more modern times.

However this is not the case with your so-called experiments. Your hypothesis is that used / rental gear is unhealthy, your "experiment" is based on divers preferences and uses a straw man null. So you are not testing your hypothesis.

Also you are not taking into account what I said. For a used regulator a diver can change the mouthpiece inexpensively (scroll to the bottom of the page). For a rental regulator you can use an alcohol pad to sterilize the mouthpiece (some ops ask you to buy your own mouthpiece). As far as wetsuits go most people were either a skin or a swimsuit under it so your underwear analogy is out. It would be more akin to wearing someone else's ski suit. A used suit can be cleaned and disinfected with a rental suit you are at the mercy of the hygiene of the dive operator. As Goodtime put it, "If the dive centre's equipment looks so scummy that you don't want to use their rental gear, then you really need to find a better dive centre!" which is similar to what I said about if it smells bad then don't wear it.

The other question is how are YOU cleaning your gear. It is going in the dive op's tank with the rest of the gear?
 
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OP, I'm in the same boat as you. Just got into diving. Putting together all my own gear. I'm trying hard for value. I want to spend as little as possible. That said, spending more now, on certain parts is still cheaper in the bigger picture if you get quality gear that you use 20 years.

My first priority was a reg. I ended up getting a used Atomic B1 1st/2nd off eBay and will be upgrading it to current tech and other features I prefer (including a new mouthpiece lol). I made a thread in the reg section about my plans there. By doing it this way, I'm saving a decent chunk because aside from the jet piston, they're upgrades I would have still added to a new reg from them. After much reading, I decided I couldn't go wrong with an Atomic, as they have a fantastic rep.

I also plan on going Atomic for a new mask, the Venom specifically (barring any sort of fit problem), the new glass is my reasoning there. I understand it is quite the pricey mask. But the whole purpose of ALL of this gear to have the best experience I possibly can underwater, so i want to see everything the absolute best I can. My health is my top priority, so reg/computer are the most important IMO. But after that, it's the mask.

Speaking of computers. I am SUPER intrigued by the soon-to-be-new xDeep Black computer. For about $400 brand new, it seems like a superb value. And it is a simple software upgrade to Nitrox and then Trimix (for a decent chunk of $ though) once I cross those bridges. As I said, health is my #1 priority, so I want to get a top of the line computer. And I will get it new, so I know it works right and it only logs all of my data. I love the look and reviews of the Atomic Cobalt, but the xDeep seems like a much better value here

I'm tall and lanky so my exposure suits will need to be custom sadly. No corner cutting here. It defeats the purpose to have a suit if doesn't fit.

as far as BCD/wing setups, my head is still swimming here. The general consensus is that a wing setup is the best, but the price is also pretty up there. I will likely end up getting a good used BCD to start and building my plate/wing system as I get some experience under my belt and my bank account recovers a bit from the initial investment.

Fins and snorkel are pretty low on my priority list. Not that I'm gonna get a Walmart clearance setup there. But I doubt I'll be going top top of the line unless I stumble across a fantastic deal. I will be going with open-heel and boots though, FWIW


...just one noob's outlook on your same situation. Sure is an expensive sport. But the experiences are so incredible, it's well worth it
 
Hi,

Okay, I give--I won't try to correct your grammar anymore. Well, almost. The proper tense of "go" to use with "should have..." is "gone", not "went". Thus, you should have written, "...you should have gone to Harvard..." And, actually, I did following Yale. Then I finished up my formal education at UCLA.

As regards, my dive gear, I do clean it myself following a dive day. Wetsuits, booties, etc. are first bathed in a mild solution of detergent, soaked in fresh water, rinsed with fresh water, and hung up to dry. BC's are soaked in fresh water--including flushing out the bladder, rinsed with more fresh water, and hung to dry. Fins and masks are just soaked in fresh water, rinsed with fresh water, and allowed to dry. Regs are soaked in fresh water, rinsed in fresh water, and hung to dry.

I do the above at my condo, not at a dive shop or other public facility. It is a bit more of a nuisance, but I like clean gear.

Following a dive trip, I do a more extensive cleaning, but will leave those details for another day....

That's it: the horse is moribund. I will leave it to RIP.

joewr
 
To the OP: Gear can be divided into a couple of categories.

The first is things that have to fit to work well. Chief among these is a mask. Spend whatever you have to, to get a mask that truly fits your face and doesn't leak. The second thing would be a wetsuit -- wetsuits that don't fit can either be extremely uncomfortable and contribute to diving stress (if they are too small) or fail to insulate well (if they are too big, or don't have the right shape for you). I highly recommend visiting as many bricks and mortar dive shops as you can get to, to try things on. Make sure the neck of your wetsuit sits very smoothly against your neck, even when you move! If it gaps, it will serve as a "scoop" to drive colder water into the suit.

You can layer suits -- buying a suit you can stand for the warmer end of your range, and layering a shorty over it for the colder end, might be a good solution. You're unlikely to find a single suit that will keep you really comfortable through that entire range.

The second category I think of is gear that doesn't have to fit, but it has to be properly serviced and maintained to work well. Regulators would head this list. There really aren't any "bad" regulators out there these days -- the liability exposure for the company would simply be too great. Most regulators will breathe reasonably well, and if you are not going terribly deep, small differences are probably more due to the way the regulator is adjusted than to the design or build. Buying a middle-of-the-road regulator that can be serviced locally is probably the best idea. Be aware that ANY used regulator will need service before you use it (you have no idea at all how it's been cared for, or how good the last tech who worked on it was) and that can add up to $125 to the price of a used setup. I think, in general, new regs are a better buy, especially for the person who is only going to own one, and is not going to work on his own gear.

Some people might put BCs into that category, too . . . but a BC is a pretty simple gadget, and it's fairly easy for the buyer to evaluate how well it is working. If it holds air, and dumps air, it's doing its job. Yes, the inflators need service (if you have the sort that you can't just replace) but if you hook them up and they don't leak or autoinflate, you can probably dive them safely. BCs are probably the place where you will run into the loudest and most heated differences of opinion. They come in two basic designs -- jacket, where the air bladder wraps around the diver, and back-inflate, where it doesn't. Jacket BCs are designed for easy flotation on the surface (which is where we tend to spend as little time as possible). They are heavier (because of the amount of material in them) and bulkier than back-inflate models. Some people do not like the "squeeze" feeling when a jacket is fully inflated; others don't like the bulk around the front of them. Jackets are probably what most dive shops are using for student gear.

Back-inflate models leave the front of the body less cluttered, and they tend to weigh less and be a little less positive (so you can possibly use one or two pounds less lead to sink your BC itself). People talk about back-inflate BCs pushing the diver forward at the surface, which can occur, if you are overweighted (so you have to FILL that bladder) and if the BC allows the bladder to ride up your back. This is why backplate setups generally have a crotch strap. In addition, if you are using integrated weight pockets that put all the weight in front of you, and an aluminum tank that is buoyant when empty, you have a setup for needing to lean back to rest comfortably. Most of us who use back-inflate BCs fix some of those issues, so we don't have to worry about it.

BCs also need to fit, because if they don't, they will either be confining, or allow the tank to slop around on your back in a most uncomfortable and sometimes disconcerting fashion. Many BCs have straps that can be tightened or loosened to ensure a fit, so long as you are in the correct general size range. Backplate setups often have a continuous harness that allows infinite adjustability, ensuring a good fit. But you probably have a higher chance of success with a mail-order BC as far as sizing goes, than anything else that requires the correct size. BCs are a place where renting or borrowing may pay off handsomely -- what people like is very individual, and it's quite annoying to purchase something you think is okay, only to borrow a rig from someone less three months later, and realize you had made a terrible mistake (says Lynne, who did exactly that!).

Have fun with putting your gear together, and realize that sometimes, part of the fun of diving is looking at new gear and deciding what to upgrade -- most of us who dive avidly are in a constant process of evolving our gear, always looking for the perfect backup light . . . :)
 
As regards, my dive gear, I do clean it myself following a dive day. Wetsuits, booties, etc. are first bathed in a mild solution of detergent, soaked in fresh water, rinsed with fresh water, and hung up to dry. BC's are soaked in fresh water--including flushing out the bladder, rinsed with more fresh water, and hung to dry. Fins and masks are just soaked in fresh water, rinsed with fresh water, and allowed to dry. Regs are soaked in fresh water, rinsed in fresh water, and hung to dry.

I do the same. Finally, something we can agree on.
 
You can layer suits -- buying a suit you can stand for the warmer end of your range, and layering a shorty over it for the colder end, might be a good solution. You're unlikely to find a single suit that will keep you really comfortable through that entire range.
lol...WOW. As someone who spent MUCH of my youth in a wetsuit (not sxuba though, mostly surfing), I never even thought of that. I wore em UNDER my longjohns, or a wetsuit vest/shorts much more often underneath. I never even considered over the top. And that makes such perfect sense
 
Make sure you try on the suits first the way you want to layer them to make sure they fit. If you buy a medium 1 piece wetsuit a medium shorty going on top may not fit. You might need a large.
 
Spend your time before you get certified learning about gear (just like you're doing here) but don't buy major gear before then. Basically, when you're still at the point of asking very general "what should I get" questions, it's a sign you don't know enough to choose yet. Dive a little first before you buy, try some different things if you can. You will develop preferences and change your mind at least a few times. You may still not get it all just right, but odds are you'll do much better and not buy stuff you'll hate next month. Granted renting can add up and is a nuisance, so if you're diving much it probably doesn't make sense to wait too long, but wait a little.

Used gear can be great - especially when you find good stuff being sold by people who bought too soon and decided they didn't like what they got, or diving didn't work out for them. (There is a message there...) Buying used regs is tricky for the beginner though. It takes a fair bit of knowledge to know what is worth buying and for how much. And, in most cases you will want to get it serviced before using it, which can be expensive and eat up much of your savings from buying used. (Unless you;re doing the service yourself, which most people don't, especially starting out.) If you do come across a used reg that looks promising, get pics and ask here or a knowledgeable friend to check it out.
 
I really love the BP/ wing. Its so much easier to stay stable and still in the water column. I was always wobbly with a BC because the tank would flop around, pulling me with it. I couldn't believe the difference the first time I tried a BP/wing. All those hours of trying to hover perfectly still, my problems just went away! The really great thing about BP/ wing is that it's pretty much one size fits all. The BP can be long or short for very tall or short divers but otherwise it's pretty much one size fits all because the harness is infinitely adjustable. I am very small and have never had a BC fit properly, which is part of why the tank has always slopped around so badly. As soon as I wore a BP/ wing ( not even with a short plate) I couldn't believe how comfortable it felt! It looks so spartan and its more comfortable than any over padded BC! The bare metal plate and plain old nylon harness is incredibly comfortable. If you need bling, you can get pretty a colored harness and wing. Oxycheq makes colored wings and colored harness can be purchased from lots of sources.
I also think the long hose and backup necklace is the best system. You probably trained with an Air 1, so this is familiar but I honestly believe that the necklace/ long hose is really better, once you've practiced and are familiar with how to use it. There's a reason ( besides just using it in an overhead environment) why technical divers universally go with this system and never,ever use an Air 1.
One thing I really don't like about an Air 1 is that you are stuck within a few brands/ styles of BCs and you have to send your whole BC in to get service if your Air1 needs to be fixed. Which means you can't just rent or use an extra regulator if something goes wrong with the Air1, you're stuck renting a BC and a regulator set. And, its likely to be a style that you've never used before, namely a regular octo style.

As for regulators, I'm very happy with my HOG reg. I also have an Oceanic 1st stage which has worked quite nicely for 10+ years! although I will be replacing it with a HOG when I get DIN for tech classes. I really like the HOG regs and think they're a fantastic value. Also, I don't mind buying used and wouldn't hesitate to buy used regs, especially used Scuba Pro or other big name brands. I do love that I can maintain my own HOG regs once I take the class, which I plan to do.
I've purchased plenty of used gear and I've never had a problem. I've never used eBay but I would certainly use the forums or Craig's List, because I trust forum members and I can go see what I'm buying locally on Craig's List.
 
thanks for all of the info so far everybody. and whomever asked earlier i 'm not too far from vail, 3 hrs drive or so, and have already contacted beaverdiver about a couple things. i have stumbled across a pretty good deal so far though. atomics b1 regs. 1st and 2nd stage with a suunto cobra computer, safety sausage, light, size M BC(which may be too small but i can resell it) and a couple other small things all for $300. i would definitely get the regs serviced before using with any used regs. sound like a bad deal to anybody?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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