Teen fatality - Skaneateles Lake, New York

[ajtoady]

So much of the reporting now-a-days is too sensationalized and misreported due to lack of either knowledge or just plain laziness on the reporter's end. It's hard to say what happened based on their reports and too many times the follow up is never reported. Proof of this is in the Asians Air crash in San Francisco personal report that followed with numerous people being canned. That no one realized, Wi Too Low, Sum Ting Wong, etc. are not real names or even questioned it, makes me question the quality of today's reporting. This is however my $.05 and if I offended you , get over it!!

 

[Doc Harry]

I can think of two incidents where a diver bolted to the surface right in front of their buddy.

In one instance, there was video of two divers within arm's reach of each other. One diver's regulator fell off her mouthpiece, leaving her with nothing but a mouthpiece and no air. Instead of going to her buddy - who was right there - she bolted off to the surface.

In another instance, I was actually practicing air sharing and donating a regulator with a buddy. We were face-to-face within arm's reach, and had gone through the act of signaling OOA and donating a regulator several times. Suddenly my buddy bolted to the surface, and I later discovered that his regulator had suddenly started breathing really wet, so he bolted.

In both instances I have to ask:

Why do people chose to bolt to the surface instead of going to their buddy? What is wrong with diver's training? How do we fix the problem?

 

[rhwestfall]

its how we are "wired" - fight or flight mechanism

 

[Beiji]

I just came across this October 23rd news report about Brandon Finch: Family and friends gather for teen who died while scuba diving at Skaneateles Lake - NewsChannel 9 WSYR

There's no new information about the incident, but it does give you a glimpse of who he was.

Bridgeport (WSYR-TV) - Family and friends gathered to mourn the sudden death of a teenager while he was scuba diving over the weekend.

As deputies in Cayuga County await autopsy results for 16-year old Brandon Finch, students at Chittenango High School met Wednesday night for a candlelight vigil in his memory.

Brandon transferred to the school district last year. His classmates wish they'd taken more time to get to know him.

"There was no event being planned to support his family or his death and we felt that it needed to be done, that we should take notice," said Paige Wooldridge, a classmate of Brandon.

"He was still a 16-year-old boy who went to our school and whether he'd been here a day, a year or 13 years; he still deserved our respect and support and his family deserves it too. So I couldn't see not doing something," said Karlene Becker, who helped organize the vigil.

Brandon was scuba diving with friends Sunday on Skaneateles Lake when he began rapidly swimming toward the surface. Witnesses say he stopped moving before he made it out of the water.

As they wait to learn what happened, students and teachers shared songs and poems as candles were passed out to a small crowd in front of Brandon's high school.

Flags at the Bridgeport Fire Station flew at half-staff in honor of Brandon, who joined the department as a junior firefighter earlier this year.

"It's a great loss. Any time you lose a young kid who is community oriented like that, it is very tough," said Bridgeport Fire Chief Frank Thompson Jr.

The Bridgeport Fire Department will provide a full honor guard for Brandon Finch at his funeral on Saturday. His mother and her boyfriend are also members of the department.

"He was a great kid. Deeply intelligent, he had a lot to offer to classes. He was a quiet guy. He really didn't have to say a lot to get his point across,” said English teacher Greg Shepard.

He leaves behind a powerful point for his young classmates.

"It's not worth being angry with people or upset, because you never know what tomorrow is going to bring," Becker said.

Visitation will be held from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at the New Comer Funeral Home on Saturday, October 26. Funeral services are scheduled to begin at 1:00 p.m. that same day.

According to Finch's obituary, memorial contributions may be made to:
Central New York Community Foundation
431 E. Fayette Street, Ste. 100
Syracuse, NY 13202

 

[meagicano]

Why do people chose to bolt to the surface instead of going to their buddy? What is wrong with diver's training? How do we fix the problem?

I started OW training with a good friend who still has yet to be certified 4 or 5 years later. I had arranged private classes with a friend (who was DM) and her boyfriend, an instructor. So we had 1:1 supervision/assistance at all time. This friend of mine was definitely not comfortable diving. She would bolt to the surface whenever we did a drill. The instructor thought he had her fears slightly under control and so we did some buddy breathing. She couldn't handle the two seconds without her regulator, lunged for me underwater, grabbed it then kicked me and bolted to the surface. I easily grabbed mine and sat underwater with the DM while the instructor and her had a little chat on the surface.

She did two more pool sessions, he tried one OW dive with her (on the second her ears allegedly hurt) and then she never contacted him again to set up a time to do the other OW dives.

I think bolting to the surface is an ingrained response and that many people, especially those new to diving or nervous about the sport in general, will tend to seek the surface instead of first addressing the problem underwater.

 

[TSandM]

Why do people chose to bolt to the surface instead of going to their buddy? What is wrong with diver's training? How do we fix the problem?

How many times do students share gas during an OW class? How often do people practice doing it after they are certified?

The instinct to head for the surface is just that -- an instinctive response to the threat of drowning. To avoid having an instinctive response kick in, you have to override it with a learned response that is sufficiently strong to do that. And how powerful the instinctive response is will vary from person to person -- we've had students who just really have a hard time controlling the desire to bolt, and other students to whom it doesn't seem to occur much at all. But in either case, the diver MUST build a practiced response of going to the buddy instead of surfacing.

And even then, it may not work. I have a vivid memory of a very embarrassing event that occurred in a cenote in Mexico. I was starting a dive involving a stage, and when you do that, you start out breathing the stage. I went to descend, and on about my second breath, ran out of gas . . . and my immediate reaction was to drive for the surface (which, considering I was about four feet down, wasn't completely unrealistic ). In less time than it takes to tell about it, the rational part of my brain kicked in and said, "Idiot, your stage is turned off," and I opened the valve and proceeded with the dive. But it taught me that even someone who has practiced air-sharing a LOT can still be blindsided by that instinctive desire to get to the gas tank in the sky.

 

[debajo agua]

What is the max. depth at Skaneateles? What are conditions like this time if year? In this particular incident, what stands out most to me, is that the victim was unconscious by the time he reached the surface. If the cause was AGE, would it render the victim unconscious, in less than approx. 10-30 seconds, it took him to reached the surface?

 

[boulderjohn]

If the cause was AGE, would it render the victim unconscious, in less than approx. 10-30 seconds, it took him to reached the surface?

Yes, it could. He could also have reached the surface, been conscious briefly, and then passed out.

 

[rhwestfall]

What is the max. depth at Skaneateles? What are conditions like this time if year?

Skaneateles Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

max depth can be beyond recreational limits (max: 315'), and it is cold, with an obvious thermocline. Clarity is usually very good, but still can be dark.

This is why I have been asking for profiles, plans, etc. At a reported dive count of this being #10, I'm really questioning everything...(answer this: how many dives for O/W? How many for AOW? Total?)

---------- Post added October 29th, 2013 at 05:37 PM ----------

Gets deep fast:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/skanlkmap.pdf

 

[NWDiverdown]

My condolences. So sad.

---------- Post added October 29th, 2013 at 03:05 PM ----------

I think, as an instructor, we may have to go the route of tec and explain to them that the surface is not the answer. PADI likes us to keep it all upbeat and never bring up deaths, but making new divers aware of the dangers of 'bolting' by telling them of tragedies caused by racing to the surface may keep a few of them from doing it. Problem is when the 'fight or flight' response kicks in, people tend to act rather than think.