BP/W for Beginner?

[phoenix31tt]

do you have the option to try one out? that could easily answer the questions that you're having... take a couple dives with one and determine if it feels wrong...

i'm in the unfortunate position where i don't have access to any bp/w setups but my gf does dive a rare inflated bc and she seems to be able to go inverted etc whenever necessary.

i actually own a mares dragon but i'm switching to BP/W, the mares is not bad per say but i'm looking for something better, fully rare inflated, more customizable and less cumbersome

 

[Dirty-Dog]

I dove with a jacket (before certification) a back inflate (SeaQuest Balance) and now a BP/W. I did find that the back inflate made buoyancy and trim easier but that may well have been as much because it had trim pockets (rather than weight on the belt) as anything else. I haven't noticed that the BP/W is any better than the back inflate was, but you can't dive doubles with the SeaQuest. That was my sole reason for changing.

So based on my own experience (and that of Mrs Dog, who has exactly the same opinion on this subject) - the back inflate is the way to go. Get whichever - BP/W or back inflate BCD - you can get a better deal on. If you are absolutely certain that you're going to be moving to doubles, then get a BP/W or a back inflate BCD that will handle doubles (there are some, though specifics escape my old, feeble mind at the moment...).

 

[eelnoraa]

BP/W is just another type of BC. Since you are out of OW, you are quite new to everything, getting used to a BC, being jacket, back inflator, or bp/w will be the same. So just do it.

My first BC is also BP/W, but I didn't listen to expert here and went with comfort harness. Two years later, I switched to basic harness and counldn't be happier. So I highly recommend you start with basic harness.

As for backplate, they mainly differ by how steep their band is. Dive Rite, DSS are on the flat side. Halcyon, OMS, HOG are on the deep side. It is totally a personal preference. I prefer deeper band, so I ended up with Halcyon and HOG.

For wing, I started with Oxycheq MkV 40lb. I have been happy with it. But as I got chance to try more wing, I do think there are better design. If I have to start all over again, I will get DSS, Halcyon, HOG, or even Hollis. I prefer more flexible outter shell and proper fitting inner bladder.

 

[ams511]

For wing, I started with Oxycheq MkV 40lb. I have been happy with it. But as I got chance to try more wing, I do think there are better design. If I have to start all over again, I will get DSS, Halcyon, HOG, or even Hollis. I prefer more flexible outter shell and proper fitting inner bladder.

The Halcyon is the most flexible followed by the DSS. The Hollis is not very flexible and I suspect (I don't own one) that the Hog is on the stiff side too. I often wonder why no one has produced a straight Halcyon knock-off. According to one of the Dive Rite YouTube videos, the bladder is oversized so that when you inflate it the outer shell holds the bladder back so there is no stress on the seams. The UTD alpha-delta looks pretty flexible.

 

[fidelinho]

A BPW is a BC. Simple, rugged, infinitely adjustable, damn near infinitely customizable, and you fit it to you. Whoever says a BPW is hard to learn to dive in or set up has likely never used one. I sell BPW's I'd guess 10 to 1 over any other type of BC. I;d guess mostly because I explain how they truly are superior for a lot of people, how they do trim out easier, reduce the amount of lead you need to carry, and because I actually dive one 99% of the time. Most of the people, including shop owners, who try to talk you out of them do so out of ignorance. They've never sold one, set one up, or dived one. So they just don;t know and many will not even bother to find out. read this on my blog regarding them, Part one: Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services
Part two: Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services
Part three: Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services

Or shoot me your email via PM and I'll send the entire 8.5 meg version with pictures.

:thumbup:
Is this offer for everybody? Maybe you should upload it somewhere

telepathically sent using my brain

 

[Banyan]

I'm reading here on scubaboard that BP/W is a superior setup but that it is difficult for a beginner to learn on. Is that true?

No. BP/W is simpler, by design, than jacket BCs and normally has less padding (pointless once underwater), allowing the diver to use less weight.

I consider myself to be pretty proficient in the water given my experience level, and I dont want to lay a pile of money down on a hybrid if I'm just going to want to switch to BP/W in a year or two. Am I being realistic?

Sounds like it. BP/W is the foundation of a modular system that can expand to the most aggressive technical diving. If you get interested in technical diving later and have a jacket BC, then you will have to get a BP/W setup.

And if BP/W is so much better, why is there such a push to sell jacket bcds?

Multiple possibilities: The dive shop doesn't make money if you buy a BP/W on the internet. The dive shop owner may not know anything about BP/Ws and doesn't want to admit their ignorance. Setup of the harness on a backplate takes time and knowledge, and it's far easier for a dive shop employee to sell a jacket BC.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

:thumbup:
Is this offer for everybody? Maybe you should upload it somewhere

telepathically sent using my brain

Yep, anyone. But I need an email address. Too big to pm. Have not dealt with uploading it to a site although I think it is on one that I sent to a guy who publishes a wz2 or w2z something or other site. It's just easier for me to send it on request.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RJP]

I'm reading here on scubaboard that BP/W is a superior setup but that it is difficult for a beginner to learn on. Is that true?

No. It's utter nonsense.

We teach ALL of our OW students in BP/W. I've had everyone from grandmas to Girl Scout troops do their OW dives in BP/W. Never had anyone have a problem

 

[halocline]

In general it's a really good idea to avoid buying a package from your LDS right out of OW. That's exactly why they teach classes, so they can unload gear as soon as the class is finished. Usually, not always, it's not the best possible gear for the money. Jacket BCs are IMO one of the worst ideas the dive gear industry has come up with; they're designed to be easy to sell, and comfy in a dive shop showroom. Too bad underwater, where diving actually takes place, they're horrible.

The thing is that recreational diving is, for the most part, very easy and enjoyable even with less-than-optimal gear, so you can use a badly designed jacket BC and still have a great time. Even the worst performing regulators, if adjusted correctly, will work absolutely fine. So, the good news for the new diver shopping is that you're very unlikely to get gear that will impede your enjoyment of diving. But, you are very likely to spend WAY more than is necessary and get gear that's not optimal.

For around the same price you can get a deep sea supply BP/W set up, and get expert customer support from Tobin, the owner. For a little less you can get a dive rite or oxycheq se up from caveadventurers (or other places) and get help setting up from this forum.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have been closely involved with the retail decisions about materials with two different shops, and I think I can tell you some reasons why a shop might or might not push jacket BCDs (or really anything).

1. Depending upon where you live and what kind of diving is done there, the shop might believe that BP/Ws will not be big sellers. They do not want to have unsold inventory on hand. (I can absolutely guarantee that this is the primary reason in my area.)

2. Some of the most popular BP/W makers require that shops enter into a contract with them that requires an initial minimum order and a minimum annual purchase of their products. Both shops I have worked with will not sell certain brands because they cannot make such a commitment.

3. Most shops have contracts with certain vendors as described above. They need to sell a certain amount of $$$ for those vendors. Many of the most popular vendors either do not make BP/Ws or they make one that people don't really want. If they enter into a contract for BP/Ws with a vendor that does not have a high minimum sales requirement (and there are some), every BP/W they would sell from that company is something they are not selling for the companies with which they have the minimum sales contracts.

4. Even if a company is easily meeting minimum sales quotas for a vendor, there is an incentive to sell more, because the company will charge lower wholesale prices for higher volumes of sales. That even goes for specific models of equipment. The shop I used to work for makes a HUGE push to get customers to purchase a specific BCD, a specific regulator set, a specific fin, a specific computer, a specific wet suit, etc. Their instructors are required to purchase and use those specific items when they instruct, and they are required to tell the students that they made those choices because as professionals they demand the best. The real reason is that that package of gear gives the shop the highest profit margin, and by increasing the volume on specific items, the profit margin is made even greater. (That is one of several reasons I no longer work for that shop.)