Considering going to a wing or BP\W - Soliciting opinions on my reasoning

[halocline]

The root of the question is this... Do you think that I would be smart to ditch the jacket and start using a wing or bp\w?

Not sure what you mean by a "wing or bp/w". The wing is part of the backplate/wing system; basically you have a metal plate that anchors the tank securely, a harness which attaches the tank-plate combo to your body, and a "wing" which is the air cell or bladder. This gets sandwiched between the plate and the tank.

IMO, switching to a rigid backplate/webbing harness/small wing system from a jacket style BC will dramatically improve your diving comfort. To me it's one of the few gear-related issues that really does make a big difference.

 

[covediver]

asking about a bpw on scubaboard is like asking the devout "which religion and sect is the best" in which case the response will be "mine, of course."

I was diving a wing (backmout bc in those days) when stab jackets came into vogue and pretty much did a way with the wing. I recently purchased a bpw, primarily for comfort and weight distribution.

If you like your jacket, why switch, if you don't change it out? I have dived on wrecks in the great lakes and other wrecks with my Black Diamond BC which I had for years. There was simply no advantage or disadvantage to doing so over a bpw.

Even Bpw are not being suplanted by sidemounts, which while practical for some diving application are not for most activities in which sport divers engage. But it is what the cool kids are doing and everyone wants to run with the cool kids.

Scuba equipment is the ultimate form of self expression, just so long as your stuff is rigged the same as every other tech diver that you may encounter. There is a certain orthodoxy to simplicity.

 

[fnfalman]

I used the jackets during training and even when I found the best fitted one, I still hated the weird floaty feeling and how things just slosh around. When I bought my first BC, I didn't know squat about jacket vs BPW but after talking with my LGS shop owner (the most honest guy I've known) about my wants and needs plus my love for diving.

He recommended the Dive Rite Transpac (think of it as a BPW with soft plate instead of hard plate) and the moment I put it on, I knew that it was different. The shoulder straps and the waist belt reminded me of a backpack of which I am most familiar with. The crotch strap kept the BC from rising away from me too. Then after the first dive I was hooked. When I decided that the majority of my dives will be in SoCal with temperate water and thick wetsuit, I went to a Dive Rite BPW. Nothing wrong with the Transpac but I wanted a steel plate to get some weight off my belt.

A couple of years ago, I rented a jacket BC because of an unplanned diving opportunity while travelling for work. I made it work. Got my weight dialed in just fine, even got my trim OK, but everything was just "off". I missed the way the BPW secures itself and the tank to my body.

 

[Traijin]

I have an Avid, I still like it. I use it when I am with students and like the floatation it offers above water. It has several D rings and other rigging options. It is a fine BC for that kind of thing. I also took Padi Wreck with it and all the other divers taking the course had a jacket type BCs. We all operated fine, learning the skills offered in the course. I am glad I have it and have no plans to get rid of it.

That being said, I will be diving a few spot in Tobermorey this Summer (Lake Huron Wrecks). I have been diving all Fall, Winter and Summer with a Hyland Plate, a Dive Right Harness, drysuit, reels, lift bags, buttplate, deco bottle, four regulators, canister light, argon bottle, dry gloves, jet fins, back up lights, backup knives, backup mask and two predator computers. I then decide what the profile of the dive will be and use either my double 108's or single 95 with an H valve, this also tells me whether to use my 30# single wing and STA or my 90# double wing.

The reason I say all that is, when I fist started buying gear I was concerned about buying gear I can grow with. I bought a nice Sherwood Regulator that can handle cold water. I bought the best BC I found at the LDS. Now, I will never use that regulator for my tech stuff, as it is a yoke style. I don't regret buying the BC or the Regulator. I use it many times a year. If you get bitten by the tech/wreck bug and want to get into serious wreck diving, purchasing a BP/W is honestly just the tip of the iceburg for costs.

There are several wrecks in Michigan that don't require deco depth and your BC will work fine for them. Unless you want to see the deeper stuff, spending a lot of time thinking about what type of BP/W and if you should get one is academic. After you pick up a drysuit, maybe rig up 7' hose and necklace you may decide doubles is the choice for you. Then a BP/W is a priority choice... but I can tell you, the money I have spent on my BP/W(s) and BC combined absolutely pale in comparison with all the other things I have bought to dive in the Great Lakes. You will spend way more that both combined to deal with the cold water alone. So don't get caught up in the need to get a BP/W until you have to.

Take a Wreck course, see if you like it. Start talking with some wreck divers at your LDS (assuming there are some). They usually will be happy to answer questions you may have. Before you know it, you may be searching for a good price on some doubles and take some advanced nitrox and moving on. I can tell you, I never thought I would be owning 5 regulators and searching for more if you asked me two years ago. Come on down to Gilboa and I'll show you fantastic divers/instructors using BCs and all the tech stuff we use if we are going for the deep side. You can't really miss our group there, we have the campers set up by the entrance.

But I still use my Avid and first regulator.


Diving skill is rarely, if ever, dictated by gear.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Back in the early days of Scuba Board I was an advocate for BP/wing and I still use them though I'd be happy to dive a jacket BC for recreational diving if that is what I had.

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I really enjoy the minimalist feeling of a BP/wing for warm water diving. Shane uses a plastic BP with a Diverite travel wing and 6' long hose. I use one of Tobin's SS BP with a Halcyon 18# wing and a 40" primary hose. Neither of us use a crotch strap warm water diving. Both of us are liking Apollo Biofins for warm water recreational diving (yes I can back up with them.)

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[TSandM]

I was an advocate for BP/wing and I still use them though I'd be happy to dive a jacket BC for recreational diving if that is what I had.

Boy, you have changed your tune!

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...le-ranger-bc-~-my-report-problems-we-had.html

 

[Uncle Pug]

Same basic tune, just changed the beat from blues to reggae.

 

[KevWind]

We use the Hollis Ride for Instruction with our new students. It is a nice system, but the wing itself could be improved. Without going into detail, I wouldn't recommend it as your primary system.

I personally dive with a Hollis Backplate and the new S-Wing. I have the aluminum plate with 25lb wing for tropical travel and confined water teaching. I also have the stainless steel plate with the 38lb wing for cold water diving. (Heavier weight for drysuit and thick insulation.)
The new Hollis S-Wings are super nice with good placement of hoses, and new oval hoses much like Diverite's. They have a removeable internal bungie which streamlines the bladder and also assists with dumping air.

There are many very nice systems out there. Deep Sea Supply makes top notch systems, and will work with you to make sure you are buying exactly what you need. DiveRite and HOG make great stuff as well. It is imperative that the harness is adjusted correctly and that you set D-Rings and belt buckle correctly.

Keep probing and researching, but here is a recommendation for BP/W.

I can second Divedoggie post, from the stand point of "new diver" I can honestly say that. Having done my OW cert in the LDS's jacket style. Then actually doing a refresher dive with Divedoggie, using one of his Hollis wings and now his AOW course using my Dive Rite . For me difference was immediately noticeable. The wing had much less tendency to rock and roll. I felt like could focus more on horizontal trim and less on side to side roll .

Not sure what you mean by a "wing or bp/w".

I think he is referring to the wing style with an integrated- soft padded back plate and bladder/wing and harness( no metal plate) , instead of a separate detachable - bladder/wing , metal plate and harness system . Like the DiveRight Travel Pac that I chose.

IMO, switching to a rigid backplate/webbing harness/small wing system from a jacket style BC will dramatically improve your diving comfort. To me it's one of the few gear-related issues that really does make a big difference.

I agree.

 

[Oldbear]

Hey All!

I love SB for the extremely diversified opinions, training levels, "old salty divers" and the like... That being said, there is something that I started debating within the last week that I wanted to pose to the community..

I currently dived a Sherwood Avid CQR3, I don't really mind any of the squeeze (does it suck sometimes? yea, but not enough for me to not enjoy diving or to drop the BC). I probably have about 15-20 dives in the BC and am fairly use to it. That being said, i am looking towards my future and "what I want out of my SCUBA funness". My girlfriend is about to be certified as OW (Key Largo trip with the LDS and has already done confined) and is also interested in progressing in the future, although maybe not into some of the gear that I am looking for.

I have been doing some research as well as talking with my LDS and there are tons of recommendations for "Ditch the jacket, go for a wing or BP\W". I do see myself Wreck Diving (I live in Michigan, we have more wrecks than lakes! - Any GL wreck diving groups, feel free to drop me a line), and eventually (a year or so, when I am ready) starting to look into doubles and tec basics.

My LDS carries some Hollis gear as well as Sherwood BCD's and I was looking at a few options, mainly the Sherwood Axis and a Hollis BP\W combo (They have the ride, but not sure if that is a good every day BC?).

The root of the question is this... Do you think that I would be smart to ditch the jacket and start using a wing or bp\w? Or continue to use the Jacket until I am more skilled and ready for that kind of diving that requires that gear?
Secondly - Do you recommend a BP\W versus a Wing for any particular reason, and if so why and what gear do you enjoy?

Sorry for the ultra long post for what I am sure is a relatively "simple" question for most, but I figure the more detail the better.

Thanks for any advice that you can give!

~Spartenos

Spartenos,

+1 for BP/W

I am what you might call horizontally challenged (pudgy) and for me the loose fit of the jacket BC made my surface buoyancy quick challenging. Like so many others I bought my first BC based on a LDS recommendation, and it works OK...most, but not all of the time. Surface buoyance was my biggest challenge as the BCD seemed to ride up around my ears and forced my face into the water. I know I might have been able to make trim adjustments and add a crotch strap to my BCD and be fine but there was nothing I could do about the sloshy fit of the jacket.

Based on what I read on SB I decided to try a BP/W configuration and I haven’t looked back since. For my transition from BCD to BP/W I purchased a DiveRite TransPlate system and on the very first dive noticed its fit and trim characteristics work superior for me compared to my BCD. Granted I only used one Oceanic BCD and a few rentals of various makes, but I would never “willing” go back to the jacketed style BCD over the BP/W. I do still train in a BCD only because I am affiliated with one training center currently and it is their requirement to demonstrate what they sell…no worries here.


As I dive more with the DiveRite Transplate I still love it. I, however, have taken off the back plate pad as I think this is more cosmetic than functional. I am now evolving into a more Hogarthian approach and my next purchase will be a simple SS back plate with web harness, a single tank adapter and ≈25lb wing. It is amazing that the more I dive the less “junk” I think I need to dive with so the lost of the BCD pockets is not a great deal. If I truly need it, it fits on the belt or harness, e.g. shears & line cutter. There are some nice deals on the internet for around $350-400 for a basic SS BP/W, but I will most likely support a LDS with the purchase - (personal decision).

Here are a few links to some BP/W configurations both vendors and philosophies:


Vendor:

Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express

Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Hollis - Dive Gear Express

Modular BC Systems and Accessories - Dive Gear Express

DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL


Philosophy:

DIR-diver.com - What's new

Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers


Good luck with your decision and I am sure that you will enjoy your BP/W…


~Oldbear~

 

[flots am]

asking about a bpw on scubaboard is like asking the devout "which religion and sect is the best" in which case the response will be "mine, of course."

The complaints various BCs are almost all caused by improperly weighted or trimmed divers. When properly weighted and trimmed, none of the BC styles should have much of an effect on anything since they'll be mostly empty and the diver will be horizontal.

Having listened to various people over the years and been convinced that style <x> is the best, I've ended up purchasing all of them at one time or another.

I still have my jacket BC and use it for easy single tank dives. It works just fine.

I also have a BP/W and a set of steel doubles, which also worked just fine, although I don't dive it anymore because it's just too freaking heavy and I'm concerned about blowing out my knee or back.

I also have a Hollis sidemount, which I'm still tuning, but which also works just fine.

Between the three, I don't think any one of them has a significant overall advantage. It just depends on what you're doing, where you're going and how much gas you'll be bringing along.

In fact, the really funny part is that about a year ago, I figured out that none of them are actually neccessary and none make you a better diver. My favorite dive last year used a wetsuit, a 2 Lb weight belt, mask, fins and a 19 cu ft tank & reg. No harness, no plate, no bladder, no nothing.

Although it would be terrible for the industry, I think a lot of people would be happy to discover how little they can dive with and how free it feels.

flots.