FL shark diving

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Wait a sec. I have to wait for the medics to stop the chest compressions before I can continue.

It is rare you will see a 12' shark hanging from sailfish marina anymore. The last one (a huge hammerhead) died boatside after the captain (a marine biologist) numerous attempts to revive the fish. Even with that, he took a lot of heat from the local fishing community.

Even the taxidermy industry is changing. Now a picture and measurements are all that is needed to create a mount. The fish no longer needs to be killed.

After the CCA and recreational fishing community with much help from Florida Sportsman Magazine, lobbied to successfully ban gillnets in S. Florida, inshore species populations have rebounded. Now there is emphasis on improving water quality. We are already benefiting from inshore programs. Offshore, Delray Beach has ceased releasing effluent from its sewage outfall pipes. It won't be until 2025 until they all are required to stop.

It's never going to be perfect, and there are a lot of different interests in the resource. I think it is time for the dive community to pay more than lip service. Maybe just as the fishing community is required to purchase a license which funds preservation of the resourse, the diving community should have the same.

I wish you were right. However you aren't completely unfortunately. I agree theres lots of conservation efforts going on, but very little directed towards the shark Im afraid.

Its really common down here to overhear shark fishing stories in the bars and hear sport fishing charters punting them to their customers. Shark is considered fair game and a thrilling fun day of fishing.

Only the other month we had an idiot bragging in the Pilot House bar about how he killed the big bull shark on the Duane wreck in Key Largo. Ive been taking customers to see that shark for nearly 7 years and because of one jerk I cant anymore. I havent seen either shark there for 2 months. I did get a report of the smaller one spotted, sickly and with a huge hook and leader in its mouth.

Long lining is legal apparently. One operator took the majority of the key largo reef shark population out in ONE TRIP about 8 years ago according to locals. We rarely see them on the reefs now. You used to see them on most dives.

If I turn on my TV and look at my local listings on cable there's still plenty of shark fishing programs and theres plenty of shark fishing articles in the magazines and advertising. Theres photos on the walls of restaurants all down the East coast of Florida showing the owner / customers all proudly hanging their sharks up at the marina.

Yes, finning is illegal, but the law is very weak and the FWC seem more concerned with pythons in the Everglades and giving boaters tickets than dealing with illegal fishing. A couple of years ago a Miami resident was caught with THOUSANDS of fins drying in a shed in is yard. Dont be naive enough to think this isnt going on undetected on a massive scale.

If a Taiwanese company is motivated enough to send illegal fishing fleets to far flung places like the Galapagos and illegally fish in arguably the worlds most important sanctuary right under the nose of the international scientific community, dont you think they will be looking at ways to get their hands on all the fins swimming up and down the East Coast of FL, which is a major migratory route for sharks?

The whole shark debate centers around public perception. First issue is that many people have not heard of finning. They have no clue what is going on around the world on a massive scale. The second issue is that the shark is not a cuddly Panda or a striking looking tiger or a cute baby elephant. The issue simply doesnt get the same public level of attention due to a lack of understanding. News agencies all around the world still refer to 'shark infested waters' and run stories of 'shark attacks'

Unfortunately Florida is the shark attack capital of the world too, so that doesnt help with popular local opinion.
 
How long have you lived in Florida? You really need to educate yourself about the threat of Pythons in the everglades, as you seem to understate the problem they pose. BTW it is the National Park Service providing most of the Law enforcement and manpower in ENP. That is however, an aside and not the purpose of my post. Here's link if you're interested, be sure to click the additional link to the fact sheets.

Burmese Pythons: Science - Everglades National Park

There are a still a few charter captains who will still take the opportunity to kill a shark. Sad but true and legal. Just as there are divers who will shoot an large Amberjack or Barracuda only to let it rot on the dock.

Please, also come up to speed on the longlining regulations on commercial fishing of pelagic species in Florida. You have to know Florida's recreation fisherman have worked long and hard, to have laws enacted; so successfully infact that recreational swordfishing is now thriving in S. Florida. BTW the SF fishery in S.FL is heavily regulated and the populations well managed. Any threat to the SF population in Florida comes from complex international treaties. The fisherman of Florida pay for additional permits, which funds research to protect the resource.

You are upset about one fish being killed. But what has the diving community done to protect the resouce? The fisherman in Florida pay dearly. I had to laugh when the divers of Florida worked so tirelessly to have the FWC change the regs to allow them to hunt Lionfish without a license. They should have encourged the community to purchase licenses, the the money raised goes to protecting the wildlife of Florida.

You write that little efforts are directed toward sharks? You might want to research the recent legislation passed in Florida, to protect Tiger Sharks and 3 Species of Hammerheads. You should also read the Shark Conservation Act passed by congress in 2010. Sharks BTW are plentiful in the keys and very easy to find. Even the Sawfish a shark that is an endangered species is a common site in Florida Bay and along SW Florida. I don't know why reef sharks are rare in the upper keys. I don't know why we don't see the redfish in Palm Beach or Broward that exist in large numbers in the upper keys, but we have more reef sharks than we know what to do with right now.

Shark tourments are thankfully few in Florida. The most popular is the Madfin Tourament in Key West. It is 100% catch and release. Extra points are awarded for hook removal too. However a hook left in the mouth of a shark is a minor inconvenience that quickly rusts away.





I wish you were right. However you aren't completely unfortunately. I agree theres lots of conservation efforts going on, but very little directed towards the shark Im afraid.

Its really common down here to overhear shark fishing stories in the bars and hear sport fishing charters punting them to their customers. Shark is considered fair game and a thrilling fun day of fishing.

Only the other month we had an idiot bragging in the Pilot House bar about how he killed the big bull shark on the Duane wreck in Key Largo. Ive been taking customers to see that shark for nearly 7 years and because of one jerk I cant anymore. I havent seen either shark there for 2 months. I did get a report of the smaller one spotted, sickly and with a huge hook and leader in its mouth.

Long lining is legal apparently. One operator took the majority of the key largo reef shark population out in ONE TRIP about 8 years ago according to locals. We rarely see them on the reefs now. You used to see them on most dives.

If I turn on my TV and look at my local listings on cable there's still plenty of shark fishing programs and theres plenty of shark fishing articles in the magazines and advertising. Theres photos on the walls of restaurants all down the East coast of Florida showing the owner / customers all proudly hanging their sharks up at the marina.

Yes, finning is illegal, but the law is very weak and the FWC seem more concerned with pythons in the Everglades and giving boaters tickets than dealing with illegal fishing. A couple of years ago a Miami resident was caught with THOUSANDS of fins drying in a shed in is yard. Dont be naive enough to think this isnt going on undetected on a massive scale.

If a Taiwanese company is motivated enough to send illegal fishing fleets to far flung places like the Galapagos and illegally fish in arguably the worlds most important sanctuary right under the nose of the international scientific community, dont you think they will be looking at ways to get their hands on all the fins swimming up and down the East Coast of FL, which is a major migratory route for sharks?

The whole shark debate centers around public perception. First issue is that many people have not heard of finning. They have no clue what is going on around the world on a massive scale. The second issue is that the shark is not a cuddly Panda or a striking looking tiger or a cute baby elephant. The issue simply doesnt get the same public level of attention due to a lack of understanding. News agencies all around the world still refer to 'shark infested waters' and run stories of 'shark attacks'

Unfortunately Florida is the shark attack capital of the world too, so that doesnt help with popular local opinion.
 
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How long have you lived in Florida? You really need to educate yourself about the threat of Pythons in the everglades, as you seem to understate the problem they pose.

What has residency in Florida have to do with knowledge of sharks? The Python comment was a dig at FWC and nothing to do with the threat of invasive species in ENP. They spend too much time in there catching pythons and not enough in FKNMS in my opinion. HUMANS are the biggest threat to the everglades and the Royal Corps of Engineers has done more damage than the python will ever do. This is also the second time you have hinted at my experience and length of time in FL. I suspect you havent a clue and its also irrelevant and none of your business :wink:

Please, also come up to speed on the longlining regulations on commercial fishing of pelagic species in Florida. You have to know Florida's recreation fisherman have worked long and hard, to have laws enacted; so successfully infact that recreational swordfishing is now thriving in S. Florida. BTW the SF fishery in S.FL is heavily regulated and the populations well managed. Any threat to the SF population in Florida comes from complex international treaties. The fisherman of Florida pay for additional permits, which funds research to protect the resource.
Recreational swordfishing has nothing to do with commercial long lining. Im up to speed thanks.

You are upset about one fish being killed.
Im talking about commercial quotas, not 'a fish.'

You might want to research the recent legislation passed in Florida, to protect Tiger Sharks and 3 Species of Hammerheads.
You're a little to quick to judge and free with your advice to those you know so little about. Im well aware of worldwide legislation actually, not just that which relates to Florida. The shark conservation act is weak and full of loopholes. As is most shark fishing legislation, such as finning bans where carcasses are now just landed whole and fins removed later. If you look at my historic posts on dive forums, youll see I have been claiming that Tigers and Great Hammers are in such jeopardy globally that they should be protected here. The locals said I was talking nonsense of course and a NOAA scientist and diver reminded me that they were not listed as endangered in the US. Lo and behold, here we are a couple of years later and FL is looking to protect them.

Sharks BTW are plentiful in the keys and very easy to find.
WRONG. I LIVE here and I dive here all the time as I own a dive shop. I am very knowledgeable about sharks in my backyard thanks. You're pushing your 'expertise' a bit too far on this one. In the last 5 yearsI have not seen ONE reef shark in Key Largo on the reefs in the FKNMS. It was 6 years ago when I last saw a reef shark at Carysfort. I have seen 1 Great Hammerhead and a couple of bulls on the reefs in the FKNMS in the last 7 years. This stacks up with my customers experiences too. We get a reported sighting about once a month for anything other than Nurse sharks. I put around 5,000 divers a year in the Keys waters, I have first hand data. If you want to see sharks in the Upper Keys, you have to go in Florida Bay, Hawks Channel or out deep. I used to see 15 - 20 bulls on the Northern Light, now its 3 - 6. Anyone thats lived and dived here over the last 20 years will tell you that they were abundant. Not any more.

The problem with a lot of people in this debate is that they experience sharks in abundance further up the East coast. This is simply not representative of the situation for most formerly heavily populated areas around the world. Areas where there USED to be tigers and Hammerheads in Abundance and now there are not. The Oceanic Whitetip is another good example, where it used to be extremely common and has declined dramatically. The FL fishermen just arent aware of it as they arent living and working all over the world like some of us that see the issues first hand. Just because you see lots of sharks NOW, doesnt mean its a good idea to catch / kill for fun, catch commercially etc because theres currently plenty. There were plenty of whales around until they were hunted to the brink of extinction. Do the sharks in FL need to be on the brink before we realize its not wise to hunt them?

However a hook left in the mouth of a shark is a minor inconvenience that quickly rusts away.
I disagree. I have seen a distressed nurse shark bleeding to death with a hook in its mouth and it also depends on how the shark is caught. Using a huge rod attached to a clamp bolted to the deck of a boat whilst the captain guns the engine to drag and exhaust the shark so a punter can reel it up to the boat easier is hardly a minor inconvenience in my book. I could punch you in the face and that would be temporarily inconvenient to you , but its breaking the law:wink:
 
What has residency in Florida have to do with knowledge of sharks? The Python comment was a dig at FWC and nothing to do with the threat of invasive species in ENP. They spend too much time in there catching pythons and not enough in FKNMS in my opinion. HUMANS are the biggest threat to the everglades and the Royal Corps of Engineers has done more damage than the python will ever do. This is also the second time you have hinted at my experience and length of time in FL. I suspect you havent a clue and its also irrelevant and none of your business :wink:

Recreational swordfishing has nothing to do with commercial long lining. Im up to speed thanks.

Im talking about commercial quotas, not 'a fish.'

You're a little to quick to judge and free with your advice to those you know so little about. Im well aware of worldwide legislation actually, not just that which relates to Florida. The shark conservation act is weak and full of loopholes. As is most shark fishing legislation, such as finning bans where carcasses are now just landed whole and fins removed later. If you look at my historic posts on dive forums, youll see I have been claiming that Tigers and Great Hammers are in such jeopardy globally that they should be protected here. The locals said I was talking nonsense of course and a NOAA scientist and diver reminded me that they were not listed as endangered in the US. Lo and behold, here we are a couple of years later and FL is looking to protect them.

WRONG. I LIVE here and I dive here all the time as I own a dive shop. I am very knowledgeable about sharks in my backyard thanks. You're pushing your 'expertise' a bit too far on this one. In the last 5 yearsI have not seen ONE reef shark in Key Largo on the reefs in the FKNMS. It was 6 years ago when I last saw a reef shark at Carysfort. I have seen 1 Great Hammerhead and a couple of bulls on the reefs in the FKNMS in the last 7 years. This stacks up with my customers experiences too. We get a reported sighting about once a month for anything other than Nurse sharks. I put around 5,000 divers a year in the Keys waters, I have first hand data. If you want to see sharks in the Upper Keys, you have to go in Florida Bay, Hawks Channel or out deep. I used to see 15 - 20 bulls on the Northern Light, now its 3 - 6. Anyone thats lived and dived here over the last 20 years will tell you that they were abundant. Not any more.

The problem with a lot of people in this debate is that they experience sharks in abundance further up the East coast. This is simply not representative of the situation for most formerly heavily populated areas around the world. Areas where there USED to be tigers and Hammerheads in Abundance and now there are not. The Oceanic Whitetip is another good example, where it used to be extremely common and has declined dramatically. The FL fishermen just arent aware of it as they arent living and working all over the world like some of us that see the issues first hand. Just because you see lots of sharks NOW, doesnt mean its a good idea to catch / kill for fun, catch commercially etc because theres currently plenty. There were plenty of whales around until they were hunted to the brink of extinction. Do the sharks in FL need to be on the brink before we realize its not wise to hunt them?

I disagree. I have seen a distressed nurse shark bleeding to death with a hook in its mouth and it also depends on how the shark is caught. Using a huge rod attached to a clamp bolted to the deck of a boat whilst the captain guns the engine to drag and exhaust the shark so a punter can reel it up to the boat easier is hardly a minor inconvenience in my book. I could punch you in the face and that would be temporarily inconvenient to you , but its breaking the law:wink:

Nice ending... I like that!

If people want to see sharks, I guess they need to dive up in Jupiter and west palm in the winter rather than Key Largo. They will see a dozen on one dive in the right place. I have seen many dozens of them on one dive.

This might be interesting to some..

[video=youtube_share;Hk_0dTtOzlU]http://youtu.be/Hk_0dTtOzlU[/video]
 
I wish you were right. However you aren't completely unfortunately. I agree theres lots of conservation efforts going on, but very little directed towards the shark Im afraid.

Its really common down here to overhear shark fishing stories in the bars and hear sport fishing charters punting them to their customers. Shark is considered fair game and a thrilling fun day of fishing.

Only the other month we had an idiot bragging in the Pilot House bar about how he killed the big bull shark on the Duane wreck in Key Largo. Ive been taking customers to see that shark for nearly 7 years and because of one jerk I cant anymore. I havent seen either shark there for 2 months. I did get a report of the smaller one spotted, sickly and with a huge hook and leader in its mouth.

Long lining is legal apparently. One operator took the majority of the key largo reef shark population out in ONE TRIP about 8 years ago according to locals. We rarely see them on the reefs now. You used to see them on most dives.

If I turn on my TV and look at my local listings on cable there's still plenty of shark fishing programs and theres plenty of shark fishing articles in the magazines and advertising. Theres photos on the walls of restaurants all down the East coast of Florida showing the owner / customers all proudly hanging their sharks up at the marina.

Yes, finning is illegal, but the law is very weak and the FWC seem more concerned with pythons in the Everglades and giving boaters tickets than dealing with illegal fishing. A couple of years ago a Miami resident was caught with THOUSANDS of fins drying in a shed in is yard. Dont be naive enough to think this isnt going on undetected on a massive scale.

If a Taiwanese company is motivated enough to send illegal fishing fleets to far flung places like the Galapagos and illegally fish in arguably the worlds most important sanctuary right under the nose of the international scientific community, dont you think they will be looking at ways to get their hands on all the fins swimming up and down the East Coast of FL, which is a major migratory route for sharks?

The whole shark debate centers around public perception. First issue is that many people have not heard of finning. They have no clue what is going on around the world on a massive scale. The second issue is that the shark is not a cuddly Panda or a striking looking tiger or a cute baby elephant. The issue simply doesnt get the same public level of attention due to a lack of understanding. News agencies all around the world still refer to 'shark infested waters' and run stories of 'shark attacks'

Unfortunately Florida is the shark attack capital of the world too, so that doesnt help with popular local opinion.

And thats why I don't eat at D Hookers. Right after they opened I asked the owner about some of the photo's on the wall and I was informed that the pictures where of her husband, the owner and they where proud of them. I told her that I was proud of not giving them any more of my money....
 
I'm glad my post about shark diving eventually morphed into a shark conservation conversation :D No problem there, I'm actually glad that there are people who get fired up about the issue. I grew up in Malaysia by the ocean, I would wake up every morning to go spearfish for my meals and surf. I probably grew up learning to swim in the ocean before I even learned how to walk straight. So I have salt water in my veins. Unfortunately for some reason, I ate shark's fin soup at almost every wedding or banquet. Until I actually found out how the fins are harvested. The more I learned about them, the more I want to try to protect them. Growing up in my culture, I know that it is not easy to change the perception of the Asian community on environmental issues, something that I'm not very proud of. I also know that it takes another Asian to convince other Asians. Yao Ming did a commercial on shark's fin soup ban and he got death threats after that. I'm trying my hardest to try to change the hearts and minds of as many people as I can and hopefully I can help save this species. What you all can do is to talk to your family and friends who fish and eat. If you dive and have footages of sharks show them that we should not be afraid of sharks, but we should be afraid for them. You might only have a 1% success rate, but that is 1% more than we could ever have.

The reason I'm going to FL is because I did hear about it being the shark capital. I also read about Mark the Shark and the charters that he takes people out on. I think we can argue until the end of the day and still not come to a conclusion. There is no good way to go about protecting what you love other than your own actions. If you see shark fisherman harvesting a shark, maybe you can consider talking to them (in a nice way). If you see sharks on a dive, help educate the other divers about shark finning. If you have Asian friends, you can do the same and try to educate them. If you see restaurants serving shark's fin soup, leave the business and try to explain to the owners why. There are tons of other ways you can help, but I truly believe that it starts with you. It will not be successful all the time, but when you hear about your one friend/family who starts sharing your concerns, you just gained one more supporter and it will be the best feeling on earth.
 
And thats why I don't eat at D Hookers. Right after they opened I asked the owner about some of the photo's on the wall and I was informed that the pictures where of her husband, the owner and they where proud of them. I told her that I was proud of not giving them any more of my money....



in addition, in my view, the food is over priced, of average quality and the service blows,,,,,



reefman
key largo
 
And thats why I don't eat at D Hookers. Right after they opened I asked the owner about some of the photo's on the wall and I was informed that the pictures where of her husband, the owner and they where proud of them. I told her that I was proud of not giving them any more of my money....

in addition, in my view, the food is over priced, of average quality and the service blows,,,,,



reefman
key largo

Ha ha , nice one guys.

To the indifferent FL people that support this fishing or couldnt care less: One thing we almost all agree on is that there are plenty of sharks up in WPB and comparatively bugger all in the Keys. Most of the people who seem indifferent to commercial and sport shark fishing reside up on the East Coast of Florida, where they are more abundant and often a nuisance to their favorite activity - Spearfishing.

This is all fine, but its not representative of the global diving community. So by all means, support your local fishermen and revel in the numbers of sharks you see but please dont tell us that shark fishing is harmless, or a drop in the ocean or irrelevant. Please dont try to tell us that sharks are not in extreme danger of extinction globally, because they most certainly are. there are countless organizations claiming this is the case and countless reports and articles from the scientific community putting the decline of shark populations anywhere form 80 -90 %

---------- Post added March 5th, 2013 at 06:40 PM ----------

Heres an interesting report from the BBC on recent research putting annual shark kills at 100 million annualy. Its just not sustainable.

BBC News - Shark kills number 100 million annually, research says
 
https://xf2.scubaboard.com/community/forums/cave-diving.45/

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