Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

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actually I am not turning it into anything, I am totally surprised that this thread won't die. I would kill it as the OP if i knew how. I went home and am diving happily. I can accept that in FL they think that they have to babysit while on the western half of the world we expect you to do what your c-card says you are trained to do, to include buddy checks and your own personal check. I also never said that i would not accept an air check from a DM just a DM that I felt uncomfortable with.

But I will not accept that just becasue i was on your boat i owe you a tip. I owe you the fee that it took to get on the boat and anything more is a thank you and in most circumstances I say thank you monetarily

Herb, I really didn't mean to infer that you were turning it into anything, I actually agree with you on this subject. Sorry for my poor wording, I was referring to everyone else turning this into big deal. Not everyone is Florida needs to be babysat and not everyone wants to be babysat. It's possible to find a boat in Florida that will treat you with respect and lend you a hand if you need it and only if you need it. But then again, I like diving outta my own boat.

As for tipping, I don't require any help carrying my gear, setting up, getting the gear on, or getting in ad out of the water. But I'm not too proud to ask for help if I need it. I guess I just remember the days when there were no DMs and you did have to take care of yourself. I'll tip if I feel the mate or the DM earns it.
 
there is no guide…. you set up your own equipment and other than taking you out to the reef you are on your own. If you are use to diving outside the USA where they pamper the client you will notice the difference

Thats a quote from a tripadvisor review for a shop here in FL that the user gave a 1/5 star review for. They had other issues but i felt that little part would also show the mentality of most divers who come on vacation to Florida have and why most shops "babysit" you.

Its not so much that they are babysitting but that they will get negative reviews online if they dont do every little thing under the sun for you. I can honestly say ive never seen a shop get good reviews down here for leaving you alone and expecting you to know how to dive but plenty of bad ones for not taking care of everything for you.
 
I should write a review of my experience on the Abernathy boat. I loved it. They helped us load the gear on the boat (and they were amazingly fast and efficient about it). Then they gave us a great dive briefing, made sure nobody lost their balance on the deck, and helped with cameras and fins. That was all. They were wonderful!
 
I mostly dive independently with budies from my dive club, either on our club RIBs or on a skippered charter. So other than doing a budy check my usual co divers would not dream of dispensing 'advice' unless asked. However, there have been plenty of times when DMs have checked my gear when I have been diving abroad, even though they are aware of my qualifications. I have no problem with it. They have a job to do. Even when they rearrange my set up of where I have octo's clipped on etc. Although it's annoying, I set it up how it works best for me and were I have told my budy it will be, it's not worth the bother of causing ill feeling by pointing that out. I just let them do it then return it to how I want it when they move onto the next diver. That said, telling me to hold my mask and inflate my BC whilst I am preparing to enter the water really iritates me, although I do appreciate it's probably more force of habit for them to parrot this stuff. At least they are professional enough to care.
 
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The DM then puts me in position that I have to blindly trust him as his valve turning rendered my previously performed checks useless and I cannot verify that the valve is still fully open (given a regular single tank setup where you usually cannot reach back yourself).
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To be honest, this statement scared me more than anything an overzealous DM might've done. The way I was originally trained, part of making sure you're geared up correctly is being able to reach and control your air supply. Do they not teach this any more?
 
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To be honest, this statement scared me more than anything an overzealous DM might've done. The way I was originally trained, part of making sure you're geared up correctly is being able to reach and control your air supply. Do they not teach this any more?

Depending on the cylinder size, with a single tank setup there is often no way I can reach my own valves and I have not seen anyone who can given a specific cylinder size - especially when standing on my feet while on land / on a boat deck (for example with a short 12l tank, there is no chance to reach anything; I don't know the american tanks though). IMO it is more common in a standard single tank setup that you cannot reach your valves...

EDIT: Besides, no I was never taught in my PADI and NAUI rec classes (OW, AOW, RD) to access my valves while in the water. It was only taught during Tec/Intro to tec courses while in doubles. However I am not quite sure if it is an important skill for recreational single tank diving. I cannot imagine a situation in which I'd need to manipulate my valve in a no overhead / no deco situation - at least when you do a good buddy check and stick to your team while underwater.
 
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Mark:

Please don't think I was slighting you; I was honestly curious about current training practices. My original OW cert was obtained through YMCA in 1983 - and from what I've read on here, it was apparently much more rigorous than most (any?) OW courses today. In the YMCA program, if a diver couldn't reach the tank valve, s/he would never have survived Shark Night.

Now that I think about it, though... when I went through my MDEA OW re-cert, I don't think they mentioned tank valve access, either. I reckon I just took it for granted; my original training was so ingrained, I've always geared up that way automatically.
 
Mark:

Please don't think I was slighting you; I was honestly curious about current training practices. My original OW cert was obtained through YMCA in 1983 - and from what I've read on here, it was apparently much more rigorous than most (any?) OW courses today. In the YMCA program, if a diver couldn't reach the tank valve, s/he would never have survived Shark Night.

Now that I think about it, though... when I went through my MDEA OW re-cert, I don't think they mentioned tank valve access, either. I reckon I just took it for granted; my original training was so ingrained, I've always geared up that way automatically.

No offense taken :wink: Now I am honestly curious: Do you remember in which situations you are supposed to manipulate your mono tank valve with respect to your training? (well besides the situation in which you jump in from a boat with a valve shut off which I believe is relatively easy to prevent beforehand, of course :D).
 
As a DM, I would not object to anyone asking to see my card, although I might think it's a bit strange. It's never happened to me, but I would not take offense. As a paying recreational diving customer (which is me 99% of the time) I don't want DMs messing with my gear and politely ask them to let me handle my own gear. Almost never a problem.
 
No offense taken :wink: Now I am honestly curious: Do you remember in which situations you are supposed to manipulate your mono tank valve with respect to your training? (well besides the situation in which you jump in from a boat with a valve shut off which I believe is relatively easy to prevent beforehand, of course :D).

If you roll your tank valve against an obstacle or obstruction to enough of a degree to partially or completely shut off the valve, it's rather nice to be able to open it back up. :)

Actually, I encountered this situation last year, during a semicircular search exercise in a river. Visibility was about 6-8 inches, and as I ran the search pattern the rope - and I - got somewhat entangled in a submerged tree. As I worked to untangle both the line and myself, I realized it was getting increasing difficult to get a draw on my regulator. Reaching back to the valve, I found a tree limb rubbing up against the valve; my movements had been incrementally inching the valve closed. So I opened it back up - problem solved! :D I rarely dive anything approaching an overhead environment, but I could see the potential for a problem there as well - either by contact with an obstruction, or the ceiling if a buoyancy control issue developed.

Granted, I've only had to exercise that particular bit of training once or twice in almost 30 years - but how many times makes it worthwhile? :wink:
 
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