Dangerous psychology- Diving beyond one's training

[fjpatrum]

What I said was "Sorry, that's exactly what I'm going to assume." In the case of cave diving, "verifying" involves you showing me your full cave card. After that, we do a small dive with you in front, running the reel. If you think you're going to read a book, browse an internet forum, practice in a quarry and do this kind of diving, you are insane. I am not being a hardass, I am worried for my friends who constantly have to pull your sorry asses out, usually dead.

For the record, I will never be one of the "sorry asses". I have no interest in any technical diving. I'm purely a rec kind of guy.

That said, the post you quoted was a response to you and someone else. The part not directed at you specifically stated that the THEORY of diving is what you can get without help. The actual skill of diving must be acquired in the water, preferably with aid of a mentor or instructor, though, again, it's not an absolute necessity if you actually use good judgement and are truly self-aware enough to accurately assess your own skills. (Most of us are not.)

Your verification method is completely congruent with what I was saying, and quite prudent, in my opinion.

 

[lowviz]

tstormdiver, finally found this link. I think that it is a good read in light of your OP: Confessions of a Mortal Diver

 

[watercooled81]

Someone pointed out technical diving is more dangerous then surfing in reply to my comment. I have surfed various reefs around the world and had numerous close calls by being nearly injured or be put throught the wash. The point I was making is many sports are dangerous that we get involved in, which can be life threatening, yet the majority we do not get 'Offical training'.
Google Dangerous sports - Cave Diving is the only diving that is mentioned in them, common ones involve, climbing, skiing, which yes you can do courses in, but on most of the lists is bike riding!
How many here ride bikes with no 'Official Training'

My arguement was against the idea of 'official training' dicating what you are capable of doing. I for one, read a lot about the sports i do, and research stuff. Diving being one of them. what i mean by research is reading many many articles, training manuals watching videos etc to get a good understanding. research is not reading one blog and taking it a gospal....

I have voiced my views, and to be honest if you dont agree with them is not going to change them and i am going to continue doing what i do because i love doing it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I see many people use analogies to other activities as an attempt to prove they are right. IN terms of logic, that is a fallacy. Analogies cannot be used as proof.

Analogies work very well in illustrating a point. If there is something we know well and something we don't know well, we can understand the new idea better if we can see how it is similar to something we know or different from something we know. Analogies are great teaching tools.

But they cannot be used as proof. There is always the possibility that some difference, apparently small, can make a huge difference. This is even true within the activity. Diving beyond your training by going to 80 feet deep when you are only trained to go 60 feet deep is indeed diving beyond your training, but that is nothing like going untrained into a silty cave. Using the first as a justification of the second is borderline silly.

 

[Thalassamania]

Borderline?

 

[lamarpaulski]

Everything in sports these days is "extreme" and the easy access to these extremes being high-lighted on video etc inspires young (usually) male types to equal or surpass them. The adrenaline rush can also be addictive. Diving is not the only sport that has this problem.

 

[DaleC]

Analogies for me, are a way to "re-illustrate" a point in a language that might be better understood by someone. The frustrating part is when people nit pick an analogy to find some way to discredit it instead of just conceding the larger implied idea.

We use analogies in diving: Decompression is like taking the top off a soda bottle - do it too fast and you fizz. Yet someone still argues that our blood is not the same molecular structure as sugar water and the lungs don't "uncap" like a twist top so that isn't correct - you must be wrong.

The whole notion of being right is something I fall prey to (because I am human) but try to be observant of. You can't listen to the other perspective if you are already formulating your response to it while it is being expressed. Though it hurts the ego sometimes, I would still rather learn than be right.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Everything in sports these days is "extreme" and the easy access to these extremes being high-lighted on video etc inspires young (usually) male types to equal or surpass them. The adrenaline rush can also be addictive. Diving is not the only sport that has this problem.

... the only time I get an adrenaline rush from scuba diving is when something has gone very, very wrong ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MSDT476614]

tstormdiver, finally found this link. I think that it is a good read in light of your OP: Confessions of a Mortal Diver

The same Richard Pyle who 'invented' the Pyle stops?

 

[lowviz]

Indeed. Research him, just don't follow his footsteps too closely. Interesting fellow.

---------- Post added December 11th, 2012 at 11:53 PM ----------

see also: Ok, "deep stops"

---------- Post added December 12th, 2012 at 12:48 AM ----------

...//...The whole notion of being right is something I fall prey to (because I am human) but try to be observant of. You can't listen to the other perspective if you are already formulating your response to it while it is being expressed. Though it hurts the ego sometimes, I would still rather learn than be right.

Brilliant.

Be aware that formal instructors hold sway over SB. You and I are assigned to the rocks unless tied to the mast...