Why a Dive Charter is a Commercial Dive Boat..

[Scubakevdm]

Shucks, I was just lightening the post a bit with that other people's snot in the hair remark. I don't really consider it to be a cross. Truth be told, I like it.

I agree with your second statement though. The OSHA requirements are not really widely known, I think because OSHA doesn't really do anything with enforcement. It's really more of an exquisite little nugget of trivia. I probably wouldn't have known about it if the situation with Dixie's variance hadn't been going on around me.

AND I have a good attitude.

 

[Doubler]

Frank,
Just a question, when you went to Haiti after the earthquake what regulations were you under and why? By the way I agree with everything you have presented this is just one of them government regulation questions.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Wookie]

Frank,
Just a question, when you went to Haiti after the earthquake what regulations were you under and why? By the way I agree with everything you have presented this is just one of them government regulation questions.

Thanks,
Jim

We were and are under USCG regulations at all times, as an inspected vessel. As long as we are flagged in the USA, No one may ever take primacy from USCG, regardless of where we are. Other countries may place additional restrictions on us, but cannot make it easier.

 

[Scubakevdm]

By your own admission, recreational diving and the instruction thereof is excluded from regulation by the coast guard.

 

[Wookie]

Well, we weren't diving in Haiti, but that is correct, for recreational diving taking place from an inspected vessel, the Coast Guard sets the regulations, and recreational diving is exempt from regulation.

Let me put it this way. I am teaching joe to dive. Joe comes to my boat, tied to the dock in Key West, FL. Joe and I kit up, walk to the swim step, and jump in. We have a dive flag up on the boat, and we don't get more than 300 feet from the boat. Let's say it isn't me, but one of my dive instructors, because as the business owner, I am exempt from OSHA. The dive instructor suffers equiptment failure and drowns. Joe is fine. OSHA, the State of Florida Department of Labor, the Monroe County Sherriff's office, and the KWPD all show up at the boat. They do not have permission to board unless accompanied by a Coast Guard investigator. Only the Coast Guard investigator can question me. Only the Coast Guard Law Enforcement personnel can arrest me. They will turn me over to Monroe County Sherriff's office. OSHA and the State of Florida will go away, although they will certainly give their input to the Coast Guard. I would be a fool to not cooperate and hide behind the Coast Guard in this case, but iI could.

 

[Doubler]

We were and are under USCG regulations at all times, as an inspected vessel. As long as we are flagged in the USA, No one may ever take primacy from USCG, regardless of where we are. Other countries may place additional restrictions on us, but cannot make it easier.

Thanks Frank.

 

[dadediver]

because as the business owner, I am exempt from OSHA

Frank, you are exempted from OSHA only because you are a inspected vessel (all inspected vessels falls under the USCG authority). Am I correct with this statement?

 

[Wookie]

Frank, you are exempted from OSHA only because you are a inspected vessel (all inspected vessels falls under the USCG authority). Am I correct with this statement?

Correct. To be clearer, I am exempted from OSHA because I own the company. My employees are not subject to OSHA because the Spree is inspected by the USCG, and the Spree is our only work place. If we had an office somewhere, or a dive shop, or a shore facility, we would be subject to OSHA as well as Workmans Comp. we do not pay state of Florida workmans comp, but we do carry Jones Act insurance for the crew.

 

[iluvtheocean]

I will definately say this discussion has been very interesting and informative especially with the information from Frank from the Dive Boat/owner's perspective. I had thought that the boats came under USCG jurisdiction, but didn't know that if they also had an office or dive shop on shore that OSHA/workers comp would apply. Would it be safe to assume that OSHA/worker comp would then only apply to the land based part of the operation and the boat USCG or what? --i'm just asking cause i'm curious and there are operators in south florida that have a land based op as well. (naming no names)

 

[Scubakevdm]

First of all, my perspective is also the business owner's perspective. Second of all, the dive flag law is a Florida state law and third of all, how do you figure you're excluded from OSHA because you're the owner? Who do you think gets the fine? And lastly how, after all of this excellent explaining is it possible that you still don't understand that a Pompano dive boat conducting instruction or guiding for money is not regulated as a commercial diving operation by the coast guard but is by OSHA? How can this be? I mean, you've even posted the standards that make the point! For God's sake guys, there's us a rule in the OSHA Commercial Diving Standards specifically addressing this situation.

I'm gonna get ip, walk all the way over there, sit down at the real computer an walk you through this one more time, and after that I'm done with this. After that point operate under your own assumptions at your own peril.

---------- Post added November 28th, 2012 at 07:27 PM ----------

Okay, here we go. Tell me at which point I'm losing you guys.

A dive boat, an inspected vessel, operating off of the Florida coast in the Pompano are has an instructor teaching or guide guiding for money.

1. Is this activity regulated as commercial diving operation by the US Coast Guard? No Why... because although the vessel is inspected, the Coast Guard Diving regs exclude all recreational diving and instruction thereof from the regs. Do we agree so far?

2. Do the OSHA commercial diving regs, in the absence any other of federal commercial diving regulations, have jurisdiction in waters up to three miles from shore in the Pompano area? Yes. How about now?

3. Do the OSHA Regs define teaching or guiding for money within the jurisdiction of the OSHA commercial diving regs while breathing any mixture of gasses other than air as commercial diving? Yes. Are we still in agreement at this point?

If so, my work is done here. If not, like I said, identify the area of contention and I'll post the supporting documentation.



---------- Post added November 28th, 2012 at 07:33 PM ----------

I will definately say this discussion has been very interesting and informative especially with the information from Frank from the Dive Boat/owner's perspective. I had thought that the boats came under USCG jurisdiction, but didn't know that if they also had an office or dive shop on shore that OSHA/workers comp would apply. Would it be safe to assume that OSHA/worker comp would then only apply to the land based part of the operation and the boat USCG or what? --i'm just asking cause i'm curious and there are operators in south florida that have a land based op as well. (naming no names)

Whether or not there is a land based portion of the business doesn't matter at all to the commercial diving regs. Its a red herring.